My Aizu-to stone

old onion
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My Aizu-to stone

Post by old onion » Fri May 04, 2018 6:18 pm

Just experimenting to see if I can upload a photo of my Aizu-to stone that I just received.
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AIZU-TO 003_crop.jpg

old onion
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Re: My Aizu-to stone

Post by old onion » Fri May 04, 2018 6:19 pm

Darn,I think it worked.

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Kit Craft
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Re: My Aizu-to stone

Post by Kit Craft » Fri May 04, 2018 6:26 pm

Heh, come on Ray, tell us what you think about it. :D (I already know you like it.)

old onion
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Re: My Aizu-to stone

Post by old onion » Fri May 04, 2018 6:32 pm

Kit Craft wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 6:26 pm
Heh, come on Ray, tell us what you think about it. :D (I already know you like it.)
Lol,I can't believe you were right there to catch my first photo I tried to post.You are amazing Kit.

I have four coats of lacquer on the sides and bottom of the stone now so I am letting that cure for 24 hours before using the stone again.I guess you already know that I can't wait.So far with just one time around with this beauty,I am loving it.My knife weel cut! :D

Bensbites
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Re: My Aizu-to stone

Post by Bensbites » Fri May 04, 2018 6:35 pm

I picked up one off eBay. Now I am waiting for it to pass customs. I can’t wait for my first Jnat.

Yes, your photo worked.

nevrknow
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Re: My Aizu-to stone

Post by nevrknow » Fri May 04, 2018 6:50 pm

Been thru 4 already. Loved all of them. 2 new ones to try now and get rid of probably the smaller one. :)

old onion
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Re: My Aizu-to stone

Post by old onion » Fri May 04, 2018 6:56 pm

Here is another picture of the stone with water on it to bring out the color more.
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AIZU-TO 005_crop.jpg

old onion
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Re: My Aizu-to stone

Post by old onion » Fri May 04, 2018 6:59 pm

nevrknow wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 6:50 pm
Been thru 4 already. Loved all of them. 2 new ones to try now and get rid of probably the smaller one. :)
I can see why you love them. It's my first natural and I am almost satisfied.Notice I said almost. This just makes me want more.

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Kit Craft
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Re: My Aizu-to stone

Post by Kit Craft » Fri May 04, 2018 9:28 pm

That is why it is called a rabbit hole. If you are sane you will, at most, add a finisher and call it game over. Or worst case, you end up having shelves of stones that you can not logically use so you make up reasons just to use them on a regular basis...lol. Well, I suppose you could trade and or sell to. :P

Seriously though, get the most you can out of that stone before moving on would be my advice. Aizu have a lot to offer if you take advantage of them. My coarsest example, which is also my softest, is probably around 3-4k if I milk it and my finest example (hardest), which looks a lot like yours, maxes out closer to 5k+ but leaves a fair bit of subtle bite. Great edge for a double bevel gyuto.

PSt: We even sharpen on the same tray. :lol:

Bensbites
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Re: My Aizu-to stone

Post by Bensbites » Fri May 04, 2018 10:18 pm

Kit Craft wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 9:28 pm
That is why it is called a rabbit hole. If you are sane you will, at most, add a finisher and call it game over. Or worst case, you end up having shelves of stones that you can not logically use so you make up reasons just to use them on a regular basis...lol. Well, I suppose you could trade and or sell to. :P

Seriously though, get the most you can out of that stone before moving on would be my advice. Aizu have a lot to offer if you take advantage of them. My coarsest example, which is also my softest, is probably around 3-4k if I milk it and my finest example (hardest), which looks a lot like yours, maxes out closer to 5k+ but leaves a fair bit of subtle bite. Great edge for a double bevel gyuto.

PSt: We even sharpen on the same tray. :lol:
Ok, purely ignorant question. I was turned onto this stone by a fellow forum member whom I trust and will text this question tomorrow... but kit, you seem to be one of the more knowledgeable Jnat folks out there so here goes.

An eBay seller posted the stone I purchased as 600-1000 grit. Everywhere else I see Aizu’s for sale or talked about, they are mentioned as more of a 2k-6k range. Do you have any thoughts on the discrepancy? I am happy to take this to PM or email.

Thanks
Ben

old onion
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Re: My Aizu-to stone

Post by old onion » Sat May 05, 2018 4:39 am

Bensbites wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 10:18 pm
Kit Craft wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 9:28 pm
That is why it is called a rabbit hole. If you are sane you will, at most, add a finisher and call it game over. Or worst case, you end up having shelves of stones that you can not logically use so you make up reasons just to use them on a regular basis...lol. Well, I suppose you could trade and or sell to. :P

Seriously though, get the most you can out of that stone before moving on would be my advice. Aizu have a lot to offer if you take advantage of them. My coarsest example, which is also my softest, is probably around 3-4k if I milk it and my finest example (hardest), which looks a lot like yours, maxes out closer to 5k+ but leaves a fair bit of subtle bite. Great edge for a double bevel gyuto.

PSt: We even sharpen on the same tray. :lol:
Ok, purely ignorant question. I was turned onto this stone by a fellow forum member whom I trust and will text this question tomorrow... but kit, you seem to be one of the more knowledgeable Jnat folks out there so here goes.

An eBay seller posted the stone I purchased as 600-1000 grit. Everywhere else I see Aizu’s for sale or talked about, they are mentioned as more of a 2k-6k range. Do you have any thoughts on the discrepancy? I am happy to take this to PM or email.

Thanks
Ben
Ben,I pondered over that same question myself.Mine was described as 600-1000 grit with a hardness on a scale from 1 to 10 as being a 6. I question the 600-1000 grit.I don't think that is so. I'd say mine is more like 4000-5000 grit.

Bensbites
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Re: My Aizu-to stone

Post by Bensbites » Sat May 05, 2018 5:28 am

old onion wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 4:39 am
Bensbites wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 10:18 pm
Kit Craft wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 9:28 pm
That is why it is called a rabbit hole. If you are sane you will, at most, add a finisher and call it game over. Or worst case, you end up having shelves of stones that you can not logically use so you make up reasons just to use them on a regular basis...lol. Well, I suppose you could trade and or sell to. :P

Seriously though, get the most you can out of that stone before moving on would be my advice. Aizu have a lot to offer if you take advantage of them. My coarsest example, which is also my softest, is probably around 3-4k if I milk it and my finest example (hardest), which looks a lot like yours, maxes out closer to 5k+ but leaves a fair bit of subtle bite. Great edge for a double bevel gyuto.

PSt: We even sharpen on the same tray. :lol:
Ok, purely ignorant question. I was turned onto this stone by a fellow forum member whom I trust and will text this question tomorrow... but kit, you seem to be one of the more knowledgeable Jnat folks out there so here goes.

An eBay seller posted the stone I purchased as 600-1000 grit. Everywhere else I see Aizu’s for sale or talked about, they are mentioned as more of a 2k-6k range. Do you have any thoughts on the discrepancy? I am happy to take this to PM or email.

Thanks
Ben
Ben,I pondered over that same question myself.Mine was described as 600-1000 grit with a hardness on a scale from 1 to 10 as being a 6. I question the 600-1000 grit.I don't think that is so. I'd say mine is more like 4000-5000 grit.

Sounds like we purchased from the same place.

old onion
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Re: My Aizu-to stone

Post by old onion » Sat May 05, 2018 5:43 am

Bensbites wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 5:28 am
old onion wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 4:39 am
Bensbites wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 10:18 pm


Ok, purely ignorant question. I was turned onto this stone by a fellow forum member whom I trust and will text this question tomorrow... but kit, you seem to be one of the more knowledgeable Jnat folks out there so here goes.

An eBay seller posted the stone I purchased as 600-1000 grit. Everywhere else I see Aizu’s for sale or talked about, they are mentioned as more of a 2k-6k range. Do you have any thoughts on the discrepancy? I am happy to take this to PM or email.

Thanks
Ben
Ben,I pondered over that same question myself.Mine was described as 600-1000 grit with a hardness on a scale from 1 to 10 as being a 6. I question the 600-1000 grit.I don't think that is so. I'd say mine is more like 4000-5000 grit.

Sounds like we purchased from the same place.
I believe we did.I just looked and his stones are mostly gone now.I didn't think they would last.

old onion
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Re: My Aizu-to stone

Post by old onion » Sat May 05, 2018 5:46 am

Kit Craft wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 9:28 pm
That is why it is called a rabbit hole. If you are sane you will, at most, add a finisher and call it game over. Or worst case, you end up having shelves of stones that you can not logically use so you make up reasons just to use them on a regular basis...lol. Well, I suppose you could trade and or sell to. :P

Seriously though, get the most you can out of that stone before moving on would be my advice. Aizu have a lot to offer if you take advantage of them. My coarsest example, which is also my softest, is probably around 3-4k if I milk it and my finest example (hardest), which looks a lot like yours, maxes out closer to 5k+ but leaves a fair bit of subtle bite. Great edge for a double bevel gyuto.

PSt: We even sharpen on the same tray. :lol:
PSt: We even sharpen on the same tray.
Hey,I believe we are brothers from different mothers.. :lol:

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Kit Craft
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Re: My Aizu-to stone

Post by Kit Craft » Sat May 05, 2018 8:46 am

In my experience 'grit' is a subjective thing in the first place. We know that stones abrasive ranges in a natural stone but that is not the entire story. A stone might leave an edge that feels and acts similar to a 4k edge while having the bite of a 1k-2k edge. The cosmetic finish could be closer to a 6k or on the other end closer to a 1k. The same stone might cut slowly like a higher grit stone or quickly like a medium grit stone. And then it depends on who is comparing the natural to what grit system, which synthetics they use for comparison etc.

As for Aizu specifically, they are not the most consistent stone from one to the next in my opinion. I have had six (some now turned into nagura) and they ranged from about 2k-5k, maybe. Again, depending on what you compare to. Nowhere near the edge you would get from a SS5k but closer to a Pro 5k. Regardless, I find that with mid grits and particularly my Aizu, the softer they are the coarser they are. Color does not so much matter, in my opinion, with these stones as it relates to finesse but it does in relation to speed. The pure white ones seem softer, chalkier, coarser and yet somehow slower cutting (say 2-3k). Make for good nagura. The really, really green/blue ones with loads of black renge and and or goma, which ever it is or even something else, seem to cut really fast and are slightly harder and slightly finer (Say 3-4k). And then you have the ones like above, my favorite. Those that are white/green with brown and some black renge(flowers). These stones seem to cut fast, be harder and finer. They auto slurry much slower and the slurry is less white and more kahki as well. Still chalky but harder and closer to the 4k+ mark. That has been my experience with the half a dozen I have used.

If looking at well known and respected vendors these stones are almost always listed as in a range of 3-5k. Mr. Watanabe lists them at close to 4000 mesh but his micron numbers with his labeling of any stone closely matches the Old JIS, so keep that in mind as it will make a difference. What one person considers a 4k another might consider a 3k. One 8k is a 6k, for example. These are nits that people like to pick though, imo.

Moving back to natural grit range and generalities. I find that people undercut Naka-to and label them much, much coarser than they are. Almost all of my Naka-to have been close to 1500+ and more like 2k+, even those frequently touted to be 1k replacements. I find a true natural 1k replacement to be rare. The closest in my collection are my Amakusa stones (range from about 800-1200) and my Natsuya which is about the same. My Binsui is much, much closer to 1500/2000 and my Igarashi beyond that. I have a few dozen more Naka-to and none are what I would call a 1k replacement.

Speaking to this subject, take a look at what Mr. Watanabe has to say in his headers on Naka-to. Almost all of them, even those commonly known as 1k replacements, are suggested to be used after a 1k and frequently a 2k stone. Because as always, the said "grit range" of a natural is NOT the whole story. How the stone works in your setup, for your needs is up to you to gauge.

Bensbites
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Re: My Aizu-to stone

Post by Bensbites » Sat May 05, 2018 9:16 am

Thanks kit.

old onion
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Re: My Aizu-to stone

Post by old onion » Sat May 05, 2018 9:23 am

Kit,
Your explanation of the nature of the natural stones and their grit range is very helpful to those of us who are unaware of such things.As always,I thank you for taking the time to put it in words for us to understand,especially me.

Ray

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Kit Craft
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Re: My Aizu-to stone

Post by Kit Craft » Sat May 05, 2018 9:35 am

No problem. Remember, that is just based on my experience. I know there are a load of guys around here with much more experience than me and I am still learning from them and from my own experiences.

Ray, you also have a lengthy email. I don't check email so often. :P

old onion
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Re: My Aizu-to stone

Post by old onion » Sat May 05, 2018 10:14 am

Kit Craft wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 9:35 am
No problem. Remember, that is just based on my experience. I know there are a load of guys around here with much more experience than me and I am still learning from them and from my own experiences.

Ray, you also have a lengthy email. I don't check email so often. :P
You have mail........too :D

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Jeff B
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Re: My Aizu-to stone

Post by Jeff B » Sat May 05, 2018 11:36 pm

old onion wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 6:18 pm
Just experimenting to see if I can upload a photo of my Aizu-to stone that I just received.
That's a good looking stone Ray, you guys keep just making it harder and harder to stay away from them!
If God wanted me to be a vegetarian he wouldn't have made animals taste so good.

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