Opps Chosera 800 !

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Jeff B
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Re: Opps Chosera 800 !

Post by Jeff B » Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:10 pm

old onion wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:40 am
Just a short little follow up on my Chosera Pro stones. Now my three Choseras ,the 400,800,and the 3000,all show spider web cracks.All were never soaked and only used strictly as splash and go and put on the racks to dry slowly.It's hard to enjoy sharpening when you think your hard earned money is just going to crumble away under your knife.Would I buy Choseras again ? NOPE!
Unless they do start to crumble away I wouldn't be worried. Surface spider webbing is somewhat common in stones with a magnesia binder, like Naniwa Pro, and does not usually hurt the performance of the stone or shorten its lifespan.
If God wanted me to be a vegetarian he wouldn't have made animals taste so good.

old onion
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Re: Opps Chosera 800 !

Post by old onion » Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:43 pm

nakneker wrote:
Wed Apr 25, 2018 1:00 pm
I have the Chosera 3k and just ordered a couple more Chosera stones. It’ll be interesting to see if any of them follow this pattern. I really enjoy the 3k, it’s one of the stones I like the most. Onion, is your cracking deep enough or separated enough to affect the edge. Spider cracking won’t bother be if it didn’t affect the surface of the stone. Just curious.
My stones are doing what JeffB describes as Spider Webbing . I can't say how deep they run but they are still there after flattening.They do not appear to be affecting the performance of the stone any. I hope they last like Jeff B says.

nakneker
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Re: Opps Chosera 800 !

Post by nakneker » Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:29 pm

I bet they do. Thanks for the response.
“The goal is to die with memories, not dreams.”

salemj
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Re: Opps Chosera 800 !

Post by salemj » Mon Apr 30, 2018 9:50 pm

nakneker wrote:
Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:29 pm
I bet they do. Thanks for the response.
I've seen comments about this before from respectable and experienced members. I am really not so confident that they affect performance one bit, and I am generally a skeptic.
~Joe

Comments: I'm short, a home cook, prefer lighter, thinner blades, and own mostly Konosukes but have used over a dozen brands.

cchusker
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Re: Opps Chosera 800 !

Post by cchusker » Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:44 am

I have a Chosera 400, 800, 1K, 3K, and Snow White. All were originals w/glued on bases except for Snow White which had no base and which was most recent purchase. All bases were removed prior to use and glue (which looked too me like a thermal glue) was removed and lapped to get off as much off as possible. I can still see slight discolored areas where glue was and suspect it may have soaked in a bit. It may be psychological but it seems like glued side does not cut as well until discoloration is worn through. As I said, it may be in my mind just because I think the discoloration means clogged stone. But as to stones cracking, knock on wood, non of my stones have shown any hairline cracking. All have been soaked no longer then 10min. or so at most to compare with un-soaked. I’ve found no real appreciative difference between soaking and splash and go since these stones are the best non loading and some of the fastest cutting artificials I have used. When I use the Snow White I usually soak as it does seem to load a bit. As for drying, I just clean stones and lay on side or stand up in dish rack. I’m thinking since Chosera literature I recall reading somewhere said new (baseless) stones were made for better environmental tolerance, it is either environment or manufacturing defects. I’m guessing it is more environmental since I live in Hawaii where temp. and humidity do not vary much throughout the year.

shevitz
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Re: Opps Chosera 800 !

Post by shevitz » Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:39 am

I have 400, 1K,2K,3K. All have cracks. The 400, 1K and 3K are of no consequence. The 2K is a different story. At this point I don't want to use the stone. the cracks feel displaced. I can feel them as I run my finger over the stone. I don't want to run an edge over them. The other stones are fine. I love the choceras (my 400, 2K,3K are all old style, the 1K is new pro style). I'm actually pretty bummed about the 2K. I have always babied my stones. They have never been soaked, and dried on wire racks. In NM it's really dry so I don't know if that played into it or not.

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Jeff B
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Re: Opps Chosera 800 !

Post by Jeff B » Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:45 am

And let's also be clear on this, Naniwa Pro is not the same stone as a Chosera. It is a new stone based off the Chosera that has been slightly reformulated. Chosera was dropped from the product name when the Pro line came out. Though maybe very minor, there is a difference in the two.
If God wanted me to be a vegetarian he wouldn't have made animals taste so good.

old onion
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Re: Opps Chosera 800 !

Post by old onion » Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:58 am

Jeff B wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:45 am
And let's also be clear on this, Naniwa Pro is not the same stone as a Chosera. It is a new stone based off the Chosera that has been slightly reformulated. Chosera was dropped from the product name when the Pro line came out. Though maybe very minor, there is a difference in the two.
I read the same thing too Jeff.The old Choseras with the bases also get those spider web cracks though,same as the Pros as seen in a certain youtube video. That was a video by Virtuovice. I tried to find that video to link here but failed in the attempt.

Wjhunt
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Re: Opps Chosera 800 !

Post by Wjhunt » Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:48 am

I have been using the Naniwa pro stones for almost three years and have not had any issues with surface cracks. I always give them a one minute soak before sharpening then put them on their side in the shade to dry.
One thing I notice is that certain building products (grout,plaster) that are mixed with water react differently from one town to the next. There are certain places were I will transport water from my home to the job because I know that I will have problems with the water. Probably just a slight difference in the minerals but the problems are consistent.
I don’t know if the minerals in the water are causing problems with the magnesium binder in the stones but I would not be surprised if that’s what causes the cracks.

old onion
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Re: Opps Chosera 800 !

Post by old onion » Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:44 am

Wjhunt wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 5:48 am
I have been using the Naniwa pro stones for almost three years and have not had any issues with surface cracks. I always give them a one minute soak before sharpening then put them on their side in the shade to dry.
One thing I notice is that certain building products (grout,plaster) that are mixed with water react differently from one town to the next. There are certain places were I will transport water from my home to the job because I know that I will have problems with the water. Probably just a slight difference in the minerals but the problems are consistent.
I don’t know if the minerals in the water are causing problems with the magnesium binder in the stones but I would not be surprised if that’s what causes the cracks.
You just might have a good point there.I run a water softener for my well water so just might be the chemistry make up of the conditioners meeting with the stone binders. Come to think of it,my contractor/friend takes water with him for mixing grout when he does certain jobs. I too,only use my Choseras as strictly splash and goes but I don't even soak them for a minute. I dry them on a rack with air circulating all around them.These are my Naniwa Pros. I do have a set of the old Choseras with the bases but I haven't even taken them out of their boxes yet. I don't plan to unless the Pro's turn to rubble.I might even decide to sell the old Chos before I even use them.

salemj
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Re: Opps Chosera 800 !

Post by salemj » Fri Oct 12, 2018 9:42 am

shevitz wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:39 am
I have 400, 1K,2K,3K. All have cracks. The 400, 1K and 3K are of no consequence. The 2K is a different story. At this point I don't want to use the stone. the cracks feel displaced. I can feel them as I run my finger over the stone. I don't want to run an edge over them. The other stones are fine. I love the choceras (my 400, 2K,3K are all old style, the 1K is new pro style). I'm actually pretty bummed about the 2K. I have always babied my stones. They have never been soaked, and dried on wire racks. In NM it's really dry so I don't know if that played into it or not.
This may be a stupid question, but have you tried flattening the 2k considerably? Let's not forget that many woods also shrink and deform, along with the height of their grains, and that these merely need to "age" and then be sanded to reset and stay near-perfect for years and years. It may be that the slight texture you feel would be eliminated with a single major flattening and would essentially never return. But you'd probably want to soak and dry the stone once or twice more just to ensure whatever adjustment occurred in the binding was "finished."

Still, this would upset me a lot, too—I feel there is a clear separation between my feelings about this issue (super annoying!) and my suggestions for dealing with it (making the most of what you've got). I feel the same way with naturals: natural stones often have serious flaws, but it seems like most people just kinda work around them or deal with them as they show up over time. They are still functional in most circumstances.
~Joe

Comments: I'm short, a home cook, prefer lighter, thinner blades, and own mostly Konosukes but have used over a dozen brands.

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Jeff B
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Re: Opps Chosera 800 !

Post by Jeff B » Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:32 pm

old onion wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:58 am
Jeff B wrote:
Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:45 am
And let's also be clear on this, Naniwa Pro is not the same stone as a Chosera. It is a new stone based off the Chosera that has been slightly reformulated. Chosera was dropped from the product name when the Pro line came out. Though maybe very minor, there is a difference in the two.
I read the same thing too Jeff.The old Choseras with the bases also get those spider web cracks though,same as the Pros as seen in a certain youtube video. That was a video by Virtuovice. I tried to find that video to link here but failed in the attempt.
Yes there were some complaints with spider webbing and cracking with the older Chosera stones but they were few and far between. There has been this type of complaint at some point with just about every stone line out there. If it was as common with Chocera as now being made out to be with the Pro line they would not have gained the stellar reputation that drew so many to buy them.

It appears to have become a more common complaint since the change to the Pro version was introduced. Is this because of the changes to stone formulation make them more sensitive to the drying process and/or environmental conditions? Is there that many more stones in circulation so it just appears to be more of a problem now? Maybe it is just an infrequent problem that is just getting discussed more. All relevant questions that probably can't be answered. In any case it still only appears to be more of an aesthetic problem in most cases when it occurs and doesn't apede the performance of the stone, make it unusable or shorten its lifespan.

Some have become more skeptical about these stones because of the complaints and discussions though many still consider them some of the best stones on the market. Once again we circle back to personal experiences and preferences forming our opinions as with every product, especially after a change or "upgrade" to that product.
If God wanted me to be a vegetarian he wouldn't have made animals taste so good.

shevitz
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Re: Opps Chosera 800 !

Post by shevitz » Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:26 pm

Finally got a (lousy) photo of the stone in question. This is the older chosera 2K. These are not spider cracks. The cracks are displaced and go most of the way through the stone. The worst spot is the 3 way crack near the middle of the stone farthest to the right in the photo. You can feel them when you run your finger over them which is why at 2K refinement I'm afraid of what it will do to my edges. I didn't get an edge shot, but I'm a little surprised the stone hasn't actually cracked all the way through. There is no taking off a few mm and having the cracks go away. The cracks go more than half way through the stone.

Image

old onion
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Re: Opps Chosera 800 !

Post by old onion » Mon Oct 15, 2018 6:36 pm

That's pretty much what all Chos look like.
edit: was supposed to say " what all my Chos look like"
Last edited by old onion on Tue Oct 16, 2018 4:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

shevitz
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Re: Opps Chosera 800 !

Post by shevitz » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:25 pm

most of my hairlines are cracked from about 1/2" in to the edge. This stone is the only one that is cracked all the way to the center of the stone, and again it is displaced enough that it feels uneven with my fingers even after flattening.

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