Imanishi Latte 400

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Kit Craft
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Imanishi Latte 400

Post by Kit Craft »

Imanishi Latte 400: The Drinker

Background:

This is a fairly elusive stone. I have only seen Mark at CKTG carry this stone and it goes out as fast as it comes in. I think this time it was on the site for a week or two before it said “one left” and it took a long time to come in last time so I snapped it up. Now, I don’t know if he only gets in a few stones or if it really is that popular but I like the stone and think it is a good one for consideration. Others seem to like it too as I have heard nothing bad about it. One thing I can say is that the name Latte is appropriate as this stone like to slowly sip water before it becomes saturated so you may as well throw it in a bucket, sit back and have a latte yourself or maybe a cigar if you prefer.

Measurements:

Weight: 990g
Length: 205mm
Width: 75mm
Thickness: 25mm

Feedback:

The tactile feedback on this one is wonderful. It reminds me of a Shapton Pro 1k, which I love, but with better feedback. It is immediate in that your bevel clicks right into place with no need to wobble the knife about. One it is in place it is locked there and does not come out. The feel under the bevel is kind of scratchy or gritty like sand but densely packed sand with a tight bond and is not overly coarse. It has that grippy feel in use where the bevel just sticks to the stone but you can hear the sandy bits chewing away the steel every so lightly. Hand feel, the texture of the stone to the touch so to speak, is rough but not harsh. I would say it is what it claims to be and that is 400-500 grit or somewhere in the 25-30 micron range. If you go over your angle you will come to a dead stop and if you go under you will skid.

Audible feedback is also apparent and pleasant. It has your typical medium coarse stone sound. It is abrasive like a sandstone and sound slike “Shu-shu-shu” in use but is not loud, nor is it faint. I guess it sounds like chalk on a blackboard. If you go over your angle it will sound more like nails on a chalkboard and if you go under it will make a “swoosh” noise like those plasticy track pants that were all the rage in the mid to late 90s.

Visual feedback is apparent but can be confusing. This stone is a fast stone but it acts finer than its effective grit indicates. If you use this on a narrow bevel it will give you a faint line of swarf from the first stroke and that will build into a small puddle of what looks like black flecks on your stone. It reminds me more of a 1k stone in this sense or even a 2k stone. Trust me, it isn’t. If you use it on a wide bevel it will eat cladding very quickly and you will be left with puddles of black/grey mud making it look like a squid left a mess on your rug...er...stone.

Management:
In talking about water management I normally start with how much water needs to be added to the stone between passes but let’s take a different route this time. This is a very, and I mean very thirsty stone. I set this in water for five minutes, drew a grid and flattened the stone when I got it. It was nowhere near flat btw. Probably the least flat stone I have ever bought. But I digress, this thing went back in the water and was still slowly bubbling away 30 minutes later. After using it a few dozen times and trying different things I can conclude that it absolutely does matter how long you soak it. It works after 10 minutes but it does not hold water well and you will be adding water frequently and it will load easier too. You should soak this stone for a minimum of 20 minutes and I just do an hour, which is where I like it. After this it holds water well.

If properly watered this stone might need a few drops every few passes. If you only soak it a few minutes it will need a splash or a handful of water after every pass or two.

Mud management is like water management and dependant on how you soak and use the stone. I think this is confusing for many because I hear that stones are or are not muddy all the time and have a different experience than those who make the claim. A shapton Pro 2k can be a very, very muddy stone or not and the same is true for this Latte 400. If you are thinning or using a wide bevel this stone will be muddy in nature but if you are working narrow bevels it will not be. If you want some mud for narrow bevels you can raise it with a slurry plate but it is not needed. The mud is thick and viscous, just like I like it. And at this point you can manipulate water useage. If your mid is thick you only need a drop or two of water here and there.

(Here you can see that the stone cuts quickly. A picture of the mud and swarf after a single pass on one side.)
Image

Speed:

This is a fast stone but not super fast. I would say it would make a good tweener or a fair 1k replacement. White # 2 and AUS8 raised a burr at 10 trailing strokes but these are blades that are kept in well shape and were dulled on glass. IE they are already thin at the edge. The burr was very small and not quite even. Doing another 5 strokes solved this problem and it was time to flip.

I would compare this stone to a Shapton glass 500 or chosera 400 in both terms of feel and speed. These three stones are very comparable but with their own subtle nuances.

I wouldn’t say it is twice as fast as a Shapton Pro 1k but it is faster. Maybe it 1.5 times faster but realistically a little less.

It cuts all steels that I have in my quiver just fine from 1074-R2.

(In this photo you can see that the stone gets fairly muddy after awhile. The mud on my fingers dried out rather quickly but that is not a reflection of what happens on the stones.)
Image

Finesse:

This stone is about where it says it is according to the other stones that I have used in this range. As I said above, it is comparable to a Shapton 500 or chosera 400, it is softer than both and a soaker with slightly more feedback but it is still around 400-500 grit. It also refines the scratches from the pink brick but not by much as the finish is already finer than the stated grit with that one.

The edge left is finer than you might think in this rage or maybe I should say it is cleaner. It can shave arm hair but it will not feel too good! It will push cut newsprint at 90 degrees both with and against the grain. You can probably get most of the burr off on the stone but I like to strop with unloaded felt to make sure the edge is clean. Just my preference. Loads of bite left at this point. Maybe consider this for soft stainless paring and utility knives.

Cosmetics are matte on mono stainless or carbon. On iron cladding it does not look like much of an improvement over the Pink Brick 220 and that is not a slight at this stone but a praise for the pink brick. This stone is a 400 and its scratch pattern shows that. Which is why it is a good tweener to stuff in the middle of the pink brick and the SP1k! However, it can jump to the 2k just fine. What it can not logically do is jump to a finishing stone like a 1k can. Cladding shade is medium and contrast is just okay but it is a coarse stone so that is expected.

(This will show you the slightly more refined scratch pattern following the 220 pink brick. It is more refined with smaller and more shallow scratches but not by a lot.)
Image

(An alternate view to try to highlight the contrast. While it is fairly noticeable due to the matte finish on the core steel it is there.)
Image

Hardness:

This one is not too hard and not too soft. It is ever so slightly harder than the pink brick and softer than the SP1k. It has a dense but elastic feel to it at the same time. I think you would like this one regardless of whether you prefer hard or soft stones as it is medium in every sense of the word. Just well balanced. Softer than both the Shapton 500 and the Chosera 400 but not by a lot.

Dishing:

This stone actually seems to dish faster than the Pink brick but slower than the SP1k. I use medium pressure so keep that in mind. I mean, you are not going to thin two knives before flattening but you can sharpen a handful, if that makes sense. If thinning you will want to flatten probably after each session and maybe before if it is a massive job. To be on the safe side I would just flatten after every use.

Vanity:

It is a pretty golden stone with white swirls. Not really much else to say.

Value:

Oh, that is where this stone stands out. It is a low cost stone at $50. It wears slightly faster than the SG500 but is much, much thicker. I would guess that their wear rate is similar enough that the Latte will last 2-3x as long as the 500 but probably about the same as the Chosera 400. However, that is perceived value. If you do not like soakers than for you this would be a terrible value! As with everything, it is relative. It is, imo very much worth the extra few dollars over the Beston 500!

Bottom line:

This stone is a fast cutting, fairly fine finishing (for a coarse stone), well priced stone with good feedback. It works well as either a tweener or even a 1k replacement assuming that you will use a 2-4k stone as your medium grit before your finishing stone. It is a soaker and likes a lot of water at first so that is something to consider. I like this one enough already to put it in my lineup between my Pink Brick and my SP1k. It makes removing scratches faster and easier. It is also quite pleasurable to use.

It is a practical stone for someone needing it. Whether you fit into that grouping is up to you. As I said, it may be practical if you want a faster 1k replacement and use a 2-4k stone as either a bridge to a finishing stone or in place of a finishing stone. It is also practical if you do a lot of thinning and want a stone to take out deeper scratches fairly quickly. Or simply you like lower grit soakers.

It is not a practical stone for those who do not like soaking stones or have no use for a medium coarse grit stone but that is obvious.



Notes:

As I stated in my last review, I try to be as unbiased as I can but realize that there is a lot in this review that is based upon my own personal taste. I try to make that known when I write it.

Tested with 1074, SK-4, White # 2, AUS-8, VG-10 and R2.
Ourorboros
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Re: Imanishi Latte 400

Post by Ourorboros »

How well does it dry? I remember that being an issue on some Cerax, never completely drying for days.
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Kit Craft
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Re: Imanishi Latte 400

Post by Kit Craft »

Ourorboros wrote: Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:08 am How well does it dry? I remember that being an issue on some Cerax, never completely drying for days.
It feels very cold for about 48 hours so I would say it is still damp inside. It is a slow dryer but it seems to do so evenly. Most of my long soakers are slow to dry.
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