Jeff B wrote: ↑Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:26 pm
I completely understand and respect what your saying I just disagree. Lasers over the many years that I've been hanging around this place have been defined by spine and grind thickness and how it performs. The Kono HD set the spine standard at around 2.3mm. Being stout, oversized or heavy has never been a disqualifier to me. By your standards the GS+ Togatta and the Kashima aren't lasers because they are oversized. Of coarse a knife that is 16mm longer and 4mm taller than something like a Konosuke, plus have a western handle and bolster is going to be much heavier. My HD2 has a thicker spine that the Kuro Western had. And in my opinion, and it is just my opinion, the Kuro western I used performed as effortly as my HD2. It performed like a laser to me, and yes it did feel very stout and very heavy compared to any laser I've used but I don't disqualify it for those reasons. In essence you're saying an oversized western handled knife can't be a laser because it is to heavy.
No issue, no complaints. However, I would correct one point: my standards are not based on size, and I don't mention size above as a limiting factor (I do mention weight in relation to size, and I see that perhaps caused confusion...and yes, you're absolutely right: I don't think a knife that is heavy for its size can easily be classified as a laser). Since you mention it, from what I understand, the grind, performance, weight, and feel of the Kashima would easily classify it as a laser; I don't know the Togatta as well, but if it is like the GS+ and other Konos, I would probably also classify it as a laser. They are "longer," but for their size, they are light and thin and are both known for having shoulderless, continuous grinds/geometry that remain thin for very high up the bladeface I would add that there have been plenty of threads where people debated what classified a laser for themselves, and I never recall there being a consensus of any type beyond the origins of the term and its relation to the Suisin Inox and the HD as two of the most popular versions in the West that helped start the popularity of the term—beyond that, it seems lots of people have different opinions. I'm fine with that, which is why I also try to state very clearly that I think the performance of the R2 Western is terrific for the type of grind it is.
We could go on and on, but I am confident that is not the point at all here. But I do want to highlight something important to me: people do commonly equate the idea of "laser" with a lighter knife, especially when it comes to professional prep. I absolutely respect and appreciate that the R2 "performed as effortlessly" as your HD, but I strongly doubt that one would say it takes the same amount of effort (or that it produces the same amount of fatigue) to use the R2 for three hours of prep as it does the HD; or, put another way, if someone said they wanted a "laser" to make hours of prep less fatiguing with not mention of handle type or overall weight, would you recommend the R2 Western? That is an important distinction for me, and I think you would agree that these types of distinctions have value. It just adds another dimension of differentiation is all—and I think many of us, perhaps even most of us, are continually looking for ways to better describe the many nuances of difference between blades. For these types of reasons, I try to use "laser" as a term more exclusively, to give it a more restrictive and precise meaning that I think is shared by a lot of people (even if NOT shared by all people). I also use it with confidence that at least 50% of people will think similarly to me. If I thought only 49% would get my point when I used the word laser, I'd change how I use it: the point, for me, is to try to be understood and convey meaning to the majority of people.
So, this is why (above) I wrote what I did. I hope it is pretty clear, and I also hope it is very clear that I'm not asking you to agree with me, but I do hope that what I wrote subsequently provides more nuance as to my experience with the R2 Western and how I think it performs, as well as how I think it might compare to other Kurosaki knives. Like I said: conveying that knowledge is the goal.