Pass around Ishikawa Santoku

See what's happening with current or completed "Pass Arounds". Forum members occasionally send knives or sharpening stones around to a hand selected group of participants for short term use and feedback/reviews.
cjmeik
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Re: Pass around Ishikawa Santoku

Post by cjmeik »

I received the knife today in good condition.
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mauichef
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Re: Pass around Ishikawa Santoku

Post by mauichef »

Bensbites wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2017 9:08 am
SteveG wrote: Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:38 am Hey easilver, are you still the current holder of this knife? Just curious about a pass around update.
The knife arrived in my hands yesterday. Last night I preped kido's lunch which gave me a chance to cut an apples. This single bevel in a new experience for me.
Looking forward to your review Ben.
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mauichef
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Re: Pass around Ishikawa Santoku

Post by mauichef »

Knife is on its way to J david.
Looking forward to your hearing your thoughts Chris.
J david
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Re: Pass around Ishikawa Santoku

Post by J david »

The knife arrived today in good order. I have a couple of meal preps planned to give it a descent workout.
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mauichef
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Re: Pass around Ishikawa Santoku

Post by mauichef »

Thanks David.
Looking forward to some write ups on this interesting knife.
J david
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Re: Pass around Ishikawa Santoku

Post by J david »

Preped a meal today with the knife. I want to prep at least one more before I send it along. This one is pretty interesting and I definately will have good things to say about it. It is not a master of all but it definately does some things very well.
Cahudson42
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Re: Pass around Ishikawa Santoku

Post by Cahudson42 »

David, when you report, could you include info on the edge, as you used it? Did you sharpen? Is it 'really' single-bevel (est. angle?) or is there a substantial back-bevel? (15 degrees was mentioned earlier). Thanks!
J david
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Re: Pass around Ishikawa Santoku

Post by J david »

Cahudson42 wrote: Thu Apr 27, 2017 2:43 am David, when you report, could you include info on the edge, as you used it? Did you sharpen? Is it 'really' single-bevel (est. angle?) or is there a substantial back-bevel? (15 degrees was mentioned earlier). Thanks!
I will report on all of this soon. In the meantime, here is a teaser.
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Re: Pass around Ishikawa Santoku

Post by J david »

Maiu, please PM the next up. I'd like to move this one along Monday.
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mauichef
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Re: Pass around Ishikawa Santoku

Post by mauichef »

PM sent.
Thanks for the quick turn around.
Looking forward to hearing your impressions.
Aloha!
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mauichef
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Re: Pass around Ishikawa Santoku

Post by mauichef »

Hi participants.
Can you please post some words on this knife.
Mark does these pass arounds to get some feedback and chatter going on his new arrivals.
We all want to hear your thoughts.
Many thanks guys.
Aloha!
J david
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Re: Pass around Ishikawa Santoku

Post by J david »

Hello everybody. Here is a quick report on the Ishikawa passaround santoku. Let me start by saying that santokus are not my thing. They are too short for my liking, in fact, I no longer have any gyutos under 240. I have also never warmed up to nakiris either. So, you might be wondering why I signed up for this passaround. I couldn't pass on the chance to try out this unique geometry, and unique it is. More on that later.
First impressions out of the box: It has a pretty typical santoku profile. The spine and choil are not smoothed but are not as sharp as many I've seen. I would knock the corners down a bit if it were mine. It has a brushed type finish that run parallel to the edge which I like. The balance piont is exactly at the heel and gives it a neutral feel in the hand. The handle appeals to me WAY more in person than it does in pictures. I always thought it was too flashy until I held it in my hand. I think it fits the knife nicely.
The grind is unique. It is a true single bevel with a slightly hollow ground ura. The reported 15 degree edge bevel is pretty accurate per my crude measurement. The knife arrived pretty sharp, but not as crisp as I like it. I did a very minimal touch up on my Uchi before cutting anything. The knife responded well and became very sharp very quickly. As mentioned earlier in this thread, there is a very slight bevel on the back side to facilitate sharpening while not scratching the ura.
Performance: this knife can do some things as well or better than any other knife Ive used. The food separation is simply fantastic. A fully diced onion still maintained its shape on the board. Same with a potato.
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More to come...
J david
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Re: Pass around Ishikawa Santoku

Post by J david »

It breazed through peppers skin side up, tomatoes, squash, and cucumbers. Because of the geometry, food separates so well, it doesn't have the opportunity to stick to the blade. The performance in this regard is right up there with a Takeda.
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Steering was present but I adapted to it very quickly and soon wasn't giving it a thought. I did not have the opportunity to cut anything particularly tall so it may be more of an issue than I experienced. I sliced some chicken breast and some sausage with no surprises.
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In all, the knife performed very well on almost every ingredient I tried. I did, however, unearth its kryptonite when I attacked a carrot with it. I say "attack" because there is nothing elegant about the encounter. I was unable get through one without cracking. I imagine that this will be a problem with harder ingredients although I did not have the time or the pantry to investigate further.
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To sum up, this knife well exceeded my expectations. I did not abuse the edge, but I didn't baby it either and it took its fair share of pounding on the board. The edge retention is on par with most knives of this steel. I have to say I expected to see some microchipping with an edge this steep and was pleasantly surprised to find none. Even though I don't particularly like santokus, I am a little sad so see this one move on. If you do favor a santoku or a nakiri, you owe it to yourself to try the Ishikawa. If he ever produces a 240 with this geometry, I will jump all over it without hesitation.
Last edited by J david on Sun Apr 30, 2017 5:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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mauichef
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Re: Pass around Ishikawa Santoku

Post by mauichef »

Great write up and photos David.
Nice prep work too!
Many thanks mate.
jmcnelly85
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Re: Pass around Ishikawa Santoku

Post by jmcnelly85 »

That potato pic says a thousand words, thanks for the write up.
J david
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Re: Pass around Ishikawa Santoku

Post by J david »

Thanks for the kind words. I just noticed that there is one of these on the closeout page for $50 off.
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/iswh2sausre.html
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Kit Craft
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Re: Pass around Ishikawa Santoku

Post by Kit Craft »

J david wrote: Mon May 01, 2017 10:45 am Thanks for the kind words. I just noticed that there is one of these on the closeout page for $50 off.
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/iswh2sausre.html
I saw that too. I have other things on my list and really don't need another knife but I almost pulled the trigger, blindly I might add.
gladius
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Re: Pass around Ishikawa Santoku

Post by gladius »

Though not part of this pass around, I'd like to share a slightly contrary opinion of the Ishikawa. Many of the observations are similar to what has been mentioned but perceived differently.

I ordered one and found it to be in the same condition as the one in this thread. The blade was twisted in exactly the same direction and the blade road very uneven yet I thought to give it a go thinking this would be a good performer.

I was able to straighten the blade and flatten the blade road nicely. This does not have a true Ura like many traditional single bevel blades so I think sharpening would be problematic long term. I placed a small micro-bevel on the backside.

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On first use I noticed it's quite reactive and strongly odorous - more so that all the White #2 I have had experience with; certainly more so that the recently acquired Konosuke White #2 knives. It discolored white onions quite badly.

The next thing I noticed was that it steered through tall ingredients, more so that other single bevels. It also wedged quite a bit on harder ingredients - it is thick with an abrupt shoulder.

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It got dull rather quickly too and I am not sure if it was due to the microbevel'd backside only? Definitely not as good as the Konosuke White #2 double-bevel.

Beside the twisted blade, uneven blade road, problematic sharpening, reactivity. steering, wedging and edge retention issues, it did cut product, but in the end it is a knife that did not meet expectations at all nor one that resonated with me and one I would find impractical for most users.
J david
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Re: Pass around Ishikawa Santoku

Post by J david »

Gladius
I figured steering would be a bigger issue on taller product. The tallest thing I cut was a potato. Many of the issues you experienced were resolved before I recieved the passaround sample. Why do you think sharpening will be an issue? I don't have a ton of experience with single bevels.
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Re: Pass around Ishikawa Santoku

Post by gladius »

I did not perceive concavity (Urasuki) on the backside like most traditional single-bevels nor a compound bevel on the front.
Without these it will be difficult to maintain geometry, consistent profile nor achieve potential. See below links...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kA0vdeDDSJI



http://korin.com/Services/Uraoshi-Sharp ... TOMERPRICE
"Without uraoshi, the knife cannot be sharpened properly or to
it’s fullest potential, and will be brittle."
http://www.echefknife.com/uraoshi-service/
"The purpose of the urasuki is to minimize food sticking to the
blade (reducing the drag while slicing), hence it has the same
effect as perforated and hollow-ground blades. It is essential
for the rim of the urasuki to be perfectly flat and level for
it to have its full effect. Furthermore, it is essential
because it enhances the strength of the blade on the edge of
the knife as well as aligning the unbalanced parts on the back
side of the blade. Without the uraoshi, the knife cannot be
sharpened to reach its full potential and will be brittle."
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