Paralysis by Analysis - Help Choosing 1st (Flat?) Gyuto/Kiritsuke

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vanix
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Paralysis by Analysis - Help Choosing 1st (Flat?) Gyuto/Kiritsuke

Post by vanix »

1)Pro or home cook?
(Enthusiastic) Home Cook

2)What kind of knife do you want? (Gyuto, Santuko, Petty, Paring, Sujihiki, etc.)
Gyuto or Kiritsuke. Probably something in the middleweight category? 5-7 oz? First J knife so not sure if I'm ready for a laser quite yet.

3) What size knife do you want?
210-240mm. Never had a 240 but after reading several posts it seems to be the go to recommendation.

4)How much do you want to spend?
200-300

5) Do you prefer all stainless, stainless clad over reactive carbon, or all reactive carbon construction?
Only had stainless to this point, but looking to make the jump to stainless over carbon.

6)Do you prefer Western or Japanese handle?
Japanese

7)What are your main knife/knives now?
Victorinox 8" Chef
Shun Classic 8" Chef

8)Are your knife skills excellent, good, fair?
Good

9)What cutting techniques do you prefer? Are you a rocker, chopper or push/pull cutter?
I'm mostly a thrust cutter (not sure if thats the same as push/pull?), some chopping, very little rocking.

10)Do you know how to sharpen?
Currently use an EdgePro with Shapton glass stones. Haven't jumped into hand sharpening yet, but its in the near future.

Please also add any additional pertinent information that can help everyone with suggestions.
After countless hours of research (Steve's review videos, forum posts, etc.) I have hit full on paralysis by analysis. To give a bit of history: I started off with the fairly ubiquitous Victorinox 8" chef, then upgraded to a Shun Classic 8" Chef. The Shun was a noticeable improvement, but I still ran into issues with accordion cuts and a general sense of not it not being quite the right fit. After looking at my cutting techniques I realized I'm mostly a thrust cutter (down and forward push cuts with little wrist action) so I chalked up the accordion issues to the very short flat section common on a western chef's knife profile. I was drawn to the Gyuto profile since it seems a bit flatter overall, but I noticed in several of the profile pics and review videos a number of them also seem to have fairly substantial curved bellies. I'm not sure if my technique needs to change or if that means I'm just looking at the wrong styles of knife. Would hate to end up with a beautiful knife that runs into the same problems. Or it may all just be in my head at this point.

Based on the other recommendation posts it seems like the most frequent suggestion for a first J knife is to go 240mm with stainless over carbon. I think I've clicked through every gyuto on the site at least twice at this point, but I've primarily focused on the following:
Anryu Blue #2 Hammered - https://www.chefknivestogo.com/kaanasgy24.html - Seems to be a crowd favorite, love the look, but cant tell how curved it is.
Masakage Koishi - https://www.chefknivestogo.com/makogy24.html - There is something about the aesthetic of this that I love, but again cant tell if its aimed more at rocking. Also pushing the budget a bit.
Masakage Yuki - https://www.chefknivestogo.com/mayugy24.html - A more reasonable starting point than the Koishi, but curious about the steel. Most recommendations seem to be Blue #2 or AS...not sure if I would regret the W#2.
Gihei Blue #2 - https://www.chefknivestogo.com/gibl2gy24.html - Seems to have that flatter profile, but this is a bruiser at 8+ oz. and the thick spine. Was hoping to find something a bit more nimble.
Yahiko White #2 Nashiji - https://www.chefknivestogo.com/yawh2nagy24.html - Also seems to have a flat profile, but similar reservations about W#2. They seem to be a bit oversized which may add to some friction while transitioning from my 15+ years of using an 8" chef.

As if that wasnt bad enough, then I started looking at Kiritsukes. At that point I realized I was going down another rabbit hole and decided to reach out for help from this amazing community. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated, and I'm certainly open to any clarifications/questions/etc.

Btw, typical prep fare is: onions, peppers, herbs and green onions, chicken/pork/beef, hard and soft squash.

Thanks!
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Re: Paralysis by Analysis - Help Choosing 1st (Flat?) Gyuto/Kiritsuke

Post by lsboogy »

Have you looked at profiles - the old Sabatier profile (called French or KS on this site) describes a profile with a good heel, fairly long flat spot some belly, and then a fine tip. German knives tend to be profiled for rocking, and lacked a flat area to chop with. Traditional Japanese knives were built for either slicing (push/pull cutting) or chopping. The KS knives were built to do it all. Why many Japanese makers have started offering them

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/clfr25prgy.html

Give it a look
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Re: Paralysis by Analysis - Help Choosing 1st (Flat?) Gyuto/Kiritsuke

Post by cwillett »

I have, and love, the Yahiko that you reference. Very flat, good looking, and the edge retention is really good. Nice tip, but you have to take care of it. My wife bent the tip early on. I haven't really noticed any downsides in edge retention compared to my blue #2 nakiri. It has much, much better edge retention than my Yuki petty, which is also W2.
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Re: Paralysis by Analysis - Help Choosing 1st (Flat?) Gyuto/Kiritsuke

Post by gladius »

cwillett wrote: Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:50 pm I have, and love, the Yahiko that you reference. Very flat, good looking, and the edge retention is really good. Nice tip, but you have to take care of it. My wife bent the tip early on. I haven't really noticed any downsides in edge retention compared to my blue #2 nakiri. It has much, much better edge retention than my Yuki petty, which is also W2.
---
Agreed. It is a good performing knife, cutting through product very well with excellent food release. These are a little oversized so you might consider a 215mm, which I have and find it plenty of knife for a home kitchen.

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/yawh2nagy21.html
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Re: Paralysis by Analysis - Help Choosing 1st (Flat?) Gyuto/Kiritsuke

Post by Radar53 »

I have and like the Anryu 210 B#2 and like it a lot. It has something of a flat spot at the heel and I don't get much in the way of accordion cuts.

The 240 you're referencing has a longer flat spot and so should work better for what you have detailed above.

It's a well respected knife on this forum.
Cheers Grant

Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not going to get you!!
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Re: Paralysis by Analysis - Help Choosing 1st (Flat?) Gyuto/Kiritsuke

Post by jbart65 »

Accordion cuts can happen with almost any knife, but it does happen less with flatter Japanese hand-crafted knives.

I’ve owned all the knives on your list. All five have suitable flat spots for push cutting and chopping. Very few knives on CKTG have a ton of belly.

The flattest is the Yahiko Nashiji. I’ve owned two of these. Terrific knife, nice tip, good looks. I use mine a lot, but it’s one of the worst rockers on fresh herbs. Great for anything else.

The Koishi is the best performer of the bunch. Maybe the best tip on any knife I’ve ever used. Good all-round profile. Get’s deathly sharp and holds and edge a long time. Mean-looking knife, too.

I wouldn’t recommend as a first J-knife knife, though. The tip is thin and somewhat delicate. Better to get something with a more robust tip.

The Anryu has a decent flat spot and is a tough knife. It was one of the first ones I bought. Nice looker and just a really good all-round knife. It’s what I’d recommend.

The Yuki is a great value. Kind of like the Koishi, but not as thin. Handle is untreated and needs mineral oil/wax etc.

The Gihei is big, but figuratively light on its feet. Curvy tip AND a long flat spot. Tough blue steel. Excellent knife, but I do prefer them a bit lighter.
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Re: Paralysis by Analysis - Help Choosing 1st (Flat?) Gyuto/Kiritsuke

Post by cpentak4 »

Look at gengetsu semi-stainless at JKI. $300 for the 210mm. Stays sharp forever. Very flat profile.
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Re: Paralysis by Analysis - Help Choosing 1st (Flat?) Gyuto/Kiritsuke

Post by ChefKnivesToGo »

Try this one. It's a really good knife and you already listed it as one you were interested in. It's gorgeous and cuts great: Yahiko White #2 Nashiji - https://www.chefknivestogo.com/yawh2nagy24.html
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