Sharper knife

[mcadio]

I bought my first knife from a review site for $44 (Shan Zu Santoku 8" knife) and it's pretty with the damascus pattern and all, but it's not very sharp now that it's been used for a while and I don't know the proper way to sharpen it. Also, the tip of it bent, which is no good. I'd like to find a great knife in the kitchen for slicing and dicing veggies that will last and be easy to sharpen with an 800/3000 stone (hopefully I'll learn how to use it). I'd like it to be able to crack the breast bone of a chicken if I choose to do that - not sure if I need a different knife for that or not.

Pro or Home: Home

Type: Gyuto/Santoku (I like the knives that the food doesn't stick to)

Size: 8" or slightly less, no larger

Price: up to $120ish

Steel: I've had stainless that weren't that sharp, so I'm open to either and understand non-stainless requires more care

Handle: No preference - easy to hold in a woman's hand, but I do like pretty knives

Current: Shan Zu Japanese Damascus Knife 8’’ Chef Knife

Skill: Beginner-Moderate. I can cut consistently without cutting myself, and have been working on rocking cutting for about 6 months.

Style: I like the tip-fulcrum method, but sometimes prefer to push chop.

Sharpening: I have no to limited knowledge of sharpening, other than using my dad's stone on old steel butcher knives

[Rufus Leaking]

TakamuraR2 210 gyuto. However, if you sharpen the knife you've got, that one would be just fine. There's no being unable to sharpen one knife, and being able to sharpen another.

[nevrknow]

Looking up that particular knife it seems to be VG-10 steel. Not quite as hard a steel as higher end knives BUT they will take a beating. ( Your crack a breast bone comment )

That being said and going by your budget ( 120ish ) I see 2 options. Option #1 you just think you need another knife because that one is dull. In that case you just need to practice your sharpening skills. A KING stone at 1000 grit would serve you well. That seems to work well for VG-10 ( for me ). You can get a knife extremely sharp with 1 stone and I will back this up in a second.

Option #2 you really do want another knife which is not a bad option since then you would have a sharp knife while you learned to sharpen on the old one. For that I would look at the Tojiro DP line of knives. Good ones can be had for around $60 which leaves you $$ for a $20-$30 King stone. PLUS if you do break bones with it no huge loss for you.

I'm just trying to keep you within your budget because this higher end knife world you are looking into can get very expensive really fast. Seems like you need to get your feet wet without going broke. Around here it is called the rabbit hole. For good reason LOL

The up side is that if it doesn't turn out to be something you want to stick with then you are out minimal $$.

Keep looking on the site, especially the Sharpeners Corner section. Some of these guys can sharpen razors on cinderblocks and they are more than willing to help anyone.

The members here have been doing this for a LONG time and are more than willing to help/guide you with anything you are not sure of. Do not be afraid to ask questions.

Hope this helps some.

[lfholland]

Whatever knife you get, you will need to sharpen it or have someone sharpen periodically. Also, you aren't going to want to crack any chicken breast bones with a guyto or santoku. Since you like to rock, I think the santoku might be a good option for you. Others more experienced with this feel free to correct me.

What about the Itto-Ryu W#2 Hammered:
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/itryuhaw1sa.html

White number 2 is considered one of the easier steels to sharpen, although it might not hold its edge quite as long as some of the others. It will be much easier for you to learn to sharpen on than VG-10.

[jmcnelly85]

I wouldn't take a takamura or Itto ryu through bone. I think know is onto something about stones and beaters being a better investment. If you have an 800-3k stone, I'd spend a much time as it takes on the 800 side until it's "sharper than before" before buying anything else. Feel free to start a "help me sharpen" thread in the sharpening section, all sorts of professional sharpeners with years of experience helping people learn will gladly get you on the path to a sharper knife.

Sharpening is much easier than it seems; however, being new there is so much out there it can seem overwhelming. Don't fret it, cavemen could figure it out.

[Lepus]

Foremost, I would suggest a set of good shears. A knife will never outperform shears at breaking down chicken backs. There are some Richmond house shears that I have not used but look fine and there are shears from Tojiro and Messermeister that are deservedly popular.

The people talking about sharpening are offering the most helpful advice. If you're satisfied with the performance your santoku gave you out of the box and you can develop the skill to get it sharp, you might not need another knife. Rather than steel type the primary factor in a knife's sharpness is the sharpener.

While I have no experience with the knife you're using, I do suspect you would see a step in performance from filling your request. There are stainless knives that take and hold a nice edge, so don't feel like you have to have reactive knives to have sharp knives. There are also semi-stainless knives that sharpen a lot like carbon but are pretty rust resistant. The Kanehide PS60 and TK santokus or 210mm gyutos or the Kohetsu SLDs should be good upgrades here. The TK and SLD are semi-staonless and the PS60 is a stainless steel that's pretty easy to sharpen but holds a nice edge.

[cedarhouse]

The best knife in the world can be dull. If you want any knife sharper, you need to learn to sharpen. It is not difficult but it does take some practice.

I do like Ifholland's suggestion of the Itto-Ryu. One thing that can really such the wind out of your sails it to try to sharpen crappy steel. A good, easy to sharpen steel will give you good feedback and instill confidence.

As most others have said, no JK will weather a breast bone well...don't do it.

[mcadio]

Ok, I have sharpened the Shan Zu knife and it's back to being pretty sharp again. I currently have an 800/3000 whetstone (this one but have not yet used it. If I should have a different one, I'll get it, just let me know.

I would prefer a reactive knife for several reasons, and nevrknow was right I'd like another knife to use while I'm practicing sharpening on my other one. Just in case I mess it up, I still have a knife to work with that's super sharp and awesome. I had an excellent week, so my spending budget has increased to at least $175. I've never regretting purchasing high quality items for my household, so there's that.

I will also get a pair of good kitchen shears, as recommended. Considering that, best options?

[jmcnelly85]

I'm curious, how is it sharper if the stone is unused?

[mcadio]

I used a diamond slide-through sharpener someone recommended - Presto 463 or something like that. It was sharp like when I got it, but I'd like sharper. I just don't want to try using the whetstone until I have another knife on hand to use. If I really love the new knife, and learn how to properly use the whetstone, I'll eventually give the Shan Zu to my sister and invest in another one down the road.

[nevrknow]

I'm curious, how is it sharper if the stone is unused?

+1.... Pull thru sharpener? Arrrgghhh.

[mcadio]

Yeah, I was taught after I bought it that although it CAN sharpen the knife, over time it's a bad idea and the why's on that.

[mcadio]

Blue or white steel is my preference after reading up on steel, something rocking friendly, that doesn't stick to food while dicing. That's super annoying.

[Gregory27]

Ok, I have sharpened the Shan Zu knife and it's back to being pretty sharp again. I currently have an 800/3000 whetstone (this one but have not yet used it. If I should have a different one, I'll get it, just let me know.

I would prefer a reactive knife for several reasons, and nevrknow was right I'd like another knife to use while I'm practicing sharpening on my other one. Just in case I mess it up, I still have a knife to work with that's super sharp and awesome. I had an excellent week, so my spending budget has increased to at least $175. I've never regretting purchasing high quality items for my household, so there's that.

I will also get a pair of good kitchen shears, as recommended. Considering that, best options?

I bought that same stone. My experience: the 3000 grit side isn't bad at all, though you do need to be careful if you're doing edge leading strokes not to gouge it. The 800 grit side? Garbage. It feels like I dropped a handful of cheap playground sand on my counter and I'm working on that. Very unpleasant feel, and, it works SLOWLY. I made the call to get a higher end 500 grit stone to really set the initial bevel on a knife, and that made a big difference in my sharpening journey. I'm of the opinion that if you're dealing with dull knives, that 800 grit side is going to frustrate you to no end.

[mcadio]

Ok thank you for the feedback on that stone. I'll make sure to get something good. Any thoughts on a knife for me?

[mcadio]

I'm thinking of either:
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/anryu.html - 165mm Santoku
OR
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/itryuhaw1sa.html

Thoughts on which one? Not sure which one to go with over the other.

[Gregory27]

I'm thinking of either:
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/anryu.html - 165mm Santoku
OR
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/itryuhaw1sa.html

Thoughts on which one? Not sure which one to go with over the other.

I can only speak to Anryu's gyutos, but mine is fantastic, as I suspect the santoku is. And I'm sure the Itto is equally good. If you're going for those you're definitely going to want to practice sharpening on something cheaper. Maybe:
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/toshhasa16.html

Should be easy to sharpen and will be pretty reactive, so it'll teach you about taking good care of your knives.

[mcadio]

I purchased the Tanaka Kurouchi Gyuto 210mm, the King sharpening stones and the angle guides. Thank you all!!!

[nevrknow]

That will definitely get you started. Best wishes.

[Gregory27]

That will definitely get you started. Best wishes.

And if you're like most people who find their way here, that'll get you started for about 3 days, at which point you'll start to need more, More, MORE! Until you've taken out a second mortgage to get a complete set of natural stones, and you've got knives lying around the house in random places because you've run out of storage space.

Have fun.