Looking for my first Japanese style knife

We encourage you to post your questions about kitchen knives here. We can give you help choosing a knife.
Post Reply
cjthomas2000
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:33 pm

Looking for my first Japanese style knife

Post by cjthomas2000 »

1)Pro or home cook? Home

2)What kind of knife do you want? (Gyuto, Santuko, Petty, Paring, Sujihiki, etc.). Gyuto...I think

3) What size knife do you want? 210 - 240

4)How much do you want to spend? $150ish

5) Do you prefer all stainless, stainless clad over reactive carbon, or all reactive carbon construction? Not carbon. Not everyone in the kitchen will take care of the knives.

6)Do you prefer Western or Japanese handle? Open to anything.

7)What are your main knife/knives now? Mainly Chicago Cutlery 8 & 10" chefs knife and a santuko

8)Are your knife skills excellent, good, fair? Fair or slightly better.

9)What cutting techniques do you prefer? Are you a rocker, chopper or push/pull cutter? Rocker and push/pull

10)Do you know how to sharpen? Yes

Please also add any additional pertinent information that can help everyone with suggestions.

This will be my first entry into Japanese knives. Looking for something that will help me make the transition and will be the tool I want to pick up every time I get in the kitchen.
User avatar
Jsgillis86
Posts: 3266
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:24 am
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Looking for my first Japanese style knife

Post by Jsgillis86 »

Welcome to the forums CJ.  Glad to see you're ready to make the transition.

The Kanehide offerings are pretty fantastic for a first Japanese knife, and will carry their weight if/when you decide to delve further into all this.  The PS60 is all stainless and comes stock with an attractive red handle while the TK is semi-stainless and all business through and through.  To be honest, the knives are quite similar passed their respective aesthetics.  If it were me and it were between these two I'd choose based on which one looked cooler to me.

Side note, even though the TK is semi stainless you'd have to try hard to get that thing to rust.  I've seen one in particular receive some next level mistreatment and not bat an eye.  That and it'd build you up some confidence towards the thought of reactive steel.

If you wanna go a little more budget but want similar performance, check out the Fujiwara FKM.  Neither fit and finish nor steel quality are quite up to par with the Kanehide offerings, but they do perform above what their price range suggests and will handle familial abuse quite well considering their geometry.

The Takamura offerings are something else I want to throw in this mix, but it sounds like you're not gonna be the only one using the knife so I won't.  Knives that thin need to be respected to draw the all out of them.

Thoughts?

Also, what does your stone lineup consist of currently?
cjthomas2000
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:33 pm

Re: Looking for my first Japanese style knife

Post by cjthomas2000 »

Thanks for the recommendations. Out of the 3, I would lean toward the Kenehide TK. I liked the black pakka wood handle.

Having never handled a Wa handled knife, what's the difference in feel between the two different styles of handles?

As far as sharpening, I've had a variety over the years. I've done the wet/dry sandpaper up to 1600 grit on a glass backing. I've tried an Arkansas tri-stone which I decided I don't like very much. Couldn't get the results I wanted. Currently I have a DMT diamond stone 250 and 500 grit. A 1000 grit and stopping supplies are next on my list.
Ourorboros
Posts: 927
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:38 pm
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 46 times

Re: Looking for my first Japanese style knife

Post by Ourorboros »

If you use a pinch grip, the difference in handles doesn't mean much. With a hammer or saber grip, you might like a Western handle if you have large hands.
User avatar
Kit Craft
Posts: 4844
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:57 pm
Location: Pennsylvania
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: Looking for my first Japanese style knife

Post by Kit Craft »

I don't agree 100% with the assessment that it does not matter in a pinch grip. I find that knives where the emoto/neck is short and directly butted against the handle cause the knife to cock to the right in my hand due to the way that I have to pinch the spine. However, when a knife has a longer emoto or neck I can put my fingers under the neck, which allows the blade to sit straight in my hand or between my fingers rather than being slightly tilted. In return, I do not see fatigue as quickly. I will note that this feeling/issue is only a problem on a small percent of J-knives as they have to have both a short neck and a fat handle. If a wa handle is done correctly, to me, it is 10x more comfortable than a yo.

That TK you mention is a lot of knife for the money and I think you will like it. You should not need to go as low as your DMT 250 or 500 and will want something finer than that. Most suggest a 1k as a starting point and 3-8k as a finishing point. Not that you need to go that high but a coarse stone like a dmt 250 will remove more metal than needed.
cjthomas2000
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2017 9:33 pm

Re: Looking for my first Japanese style knife

Post by cjthomas2000 »

Thanks for all of your replies. I typically use a pinch grip when I'm processing vegetables. Understand what you are saying about the lower grit DMT plates. A king combo stone is likely in my near future. I love to sharpen my tools, kitchen and otherwise. Still learning the patience and art behind getting a consistently great edge. The new stone will help a lot. I've got some old Case XX knives that I'm working on restoring. May never get them back to into service, but definitely want to bring them back to a functional state. They were greatly abused in their former life.

I'm definitely saving my pennies. Stepping into this level of knife is very likely going to start a knife replacement program (my wife would say collection habit :)) in my house. Next I will need something to keep them safe from others that may be in my kitchen. My kids aren't ready for something like this - at least not without supervision.
User avatar
Jsgillis86
Posts: 3266
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:24 am
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Looking for my first Japanese style knife

Post by Jsgillis86 »

As you can see, handle preference is a very personal matter. Some generalizations-

Wa handles are typically lighter and, as a result, leave the balance point more blade forward. If you choke up on the blade when you grip it might feel more "extension of your arm" due to you gripping right on the BP. If you grip further back, the knife will feel moderately less nimble but will provide you more chopping power.

Yo handled Japanese knives typically feel more grounded in your palm (think less likely to fly out of your hand). This is due to their neutral (right at the bolster/heel) balance point and the additional weight from the full tang. They also feel more sturdy. Full tang construction was designed for swords, and so they could withstand impact with other swords. You get the idea.

Really though, your best bet is to try a few and decide for yourself. Remember too, there are a few different styles (octogonal, D-shaped, oval, etc), certain woods weigh more than others, some handles are left unsealed, some leave an exposed machi, and so on and so forth. All these factors can change a way a knife feels and behaves.

I would also highly recommend getting yourself a set of good stones. Much of the enjoyment many of us receive from high end cutlery derives itself from the fact that it can get so much sharper than what we knew previously. Being able to do the deed yourself is even more satisfying, and also means that you'll have a sharp knife at all times.

Start a thread in the sharpening subforum (as it will gain more traction there) and ask them to point you in the right direction. Lots of good people there.
Post Reply