Konosuke hd2 vs Kohetsu HAP40

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bananajama
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Re: Konosuke hd2 vs Kohetsu HAP40

Post by bananajama » Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:24 pm

Kit Craft wrote:
Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:22 pm
Chefcallari wrote:
Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:34 pm
salemj wrote:
Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:49 pm
My sense is that the only potential shortcoming of the Hap40 is the steel (a matter of taste—I've never used it and virtually everything I've read has been positive, but you never know), so as long as you love that, I can see no reason why you'd try to replace it with something similar. I've never seen/used the Hap40, but based on things I've read, it is very similar to a Konosuke laser in that it is very thin with a traditional profile that is not too tall at the heel while still featuring better release than more flat-ground blades. In this case, I see no reason to question a match made in heaven.
Guys , guys, guys..... You dont actually think.... I ... Would.... Replace my beloved Kohetsu???!!!

TAKE MY EYES JUST NOT MY KNIFE!

Lol i have no intention of buying a konosuke... I just remember comparing the 2 before i got my HAP40 because they were almost identical

Spine thickness: 2.4mm
Weight: 4.8 oz
Very similar choil shot

I kinda feel the Kohetsu is a little underrated. I know alot of guys try to get there hands on a kono and cant. Maybe the Kohetsus are a good alternative?
I know guys like you and kit have a ton of experience with all different kinds of knives so i wanna see if anybody compared the two.
I wound't say that I have experience with tons of knives, I don't. I do however have a weird obsession for value knives like the Kohetsu offerings as well as Fujiwara, Tojiro, Harukaze and Minamoto(often overlooked). I like the Kanehide offers, a lot as well. I have not tried the Hap40, though. The steel is beyond my needs by a ton. :lol:
How do you like the Tojiro knives? In your experience, what is the best way to sharpen them?

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Kit Craft
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Re: Konosuke hd2 vs Kohetsu HAP40

Post by Kit Craft » Mon Oct 16, 2017 8:12 pm

bananajama wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:24 pm
Kit Craft wrote:
Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:22 pm
Chefcallari wrote:
Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:34 pm


Guys , guys, guys..... You dont actually think.... I ... Would.... Replace my beloved Kohetsu???!!!

TAKE MY EYES JUST NOT MY KNIFE!

Lol i have no intention of buying a konosuke... I just remember comparing the 2 before i got my HAP40 because they were almost identical

Spine thickness: 2.4mm
Weight: 4.8 oz
Very similar choil shot

I kinda feel the Kohetsu is a little underrated. I know alot of guys try to get there hands on a kono and cant. Maybe the Kohetsus are a good alternative?
I know guys like you and kit have a ton of experience with all different kinds of knives so i wanna see if anybody compared the two.
I wound't say that I have experience with tons of knives, I don't. I do however have a weird obsession for value knives like the Kohetsu offerings as well as Fujiwara, Tojiro, Harukaze and Minamoto(often overlooked). I like the Kanehide offers, a lot as well. I have not tried the Hap40, though. The steel is beyond my needs by a ton. :lol:
How do you like the Tojiro knives? In your experience, what is the best way to sharpen them?
How do you mean, best way to sharpen? As in refinement or approach. Are we talking about the DP or ITK? ITK, lay her flat and take it to a zero grind then life the spine slightly and add a micro bevel. DP, follow what is already there. I like a 2-4k edge. I like Tojiro just fine and even better for the price. :)

Chefspence
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Re: Konosuke hd2 vs Kohetsu HAP40

Post by Chefspence » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:23 pm

I just bought the hd2 and find it amazing! Very much like the Kono w2 laser I tried. I just put it side by side with the kotetsu and I think the Kono wears the "laser" label better. Never tried a kohetsu. Definitely want to

Cutuu
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Re: Konosuke hd2 vs Kohetsu HAP40

Post by Cutuu » Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:29 pm

Chefspence wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:23 pm
I just bought the hd2 and find it amazing! Very much like the Kono w2 laser I tried. I just put it side by side with the kotetsu and I think the Kono wears the "laser" label better. Never tried a kohetsu. Definitely want to
Spence concerning thickness of spine and grind what are the differences between the white and hd2? I was under the impression they were supposed to be the. same

Chefspence
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Re: Konosuke hd2 vs Kohetsu HAP40

Post by Chefspence » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:30 pm

Cutuu wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:29 pm
Chefspence wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:23 pm
I just bought the hd2 and find it amazing! Very much like the Kono w2 laser I tried. I just put it side by side with the kotetsu and I think the Kono wears the "laser" label better. Never tried a kohetsu. Definitely want to
Spence concerning thickness of spine and grind what are the differences between the white and hd2? I was under the impression they were supposed to be the. same
Very similar. It's hard to recollect, but I did email Mark concerning the similarities because I swear the w2 seemed just a tad thicker, little more stout and heavy feeling, and the grind from the choil seemed a little more obvious. The HD from the choil seemed thinner and a bit harder to discern the grinds. More subtle I should say. Now that's from my recollection a while ago. They both perform like race cars, my gosh you have to slow these things down sometimes. I actually think I like the w2 better, but I really wanted something more than screened on kanji. Just to make sure I don't blow smoke, it has been a while since I had the w2, and the only other Kono laser I handled before that was an original GS, which was very thin and flexy. Too wimpy so I sold it. The w2 struck me as the opposite of that, yet still a laser. Idk :)

Chefspence
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Re: Konosuke hd2 vs Kohetsu HAP40

Post by Chefspence » Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:35 pm

"They're made to the same specs and cut from the same die but when they grind the blades they can vary slightly depending how much they remove. Also, sometimes the steel is a tiny bit different in thickness which will also make them a little different once they're finished."

There's the answer

Cutuu
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Re: Konosuke hd2 vs Kohetsu HAP40

Post by Cutuu » Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:01 am

Chefspence wrote:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 11:35 pm
"They're made to the same specs and cut from the same die but when they grind the blades they can vary slightly depending how much they remove. Also, sometimes the steel is a tiny bit different in thickness which will also make them a little different once they're finished."

There's the answer
Thanks, my (ex) white #2 was (is) quite nice and felt sturdy for a laser. It was hard for me to imagine an hd2 being any sturdier.

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jbart65
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Re: Konosuke hd2 vs Kohetsu HAP40

Post by jbart65 » Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:59 am

My HD2 and W#2 were almost indentical when I compared side by side. The W#2 was a hair lighter, 4.7 oz vs 4.8 for the HD. I thought my White got a whisper sharper but the HD felt harder and had better edge retention.

I made the switch because I liked the W#2 handle better, but I might just pick up another HD2 one of these days to compare again.
Last edited by jbart65 on Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
Jeffry B

salemj
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Re: Konosuke hd2 vs Kohetsu HAP40

Post by salemj » Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:32 am

jbart, do you mean W#2? I think I've seen you mention this before. I don't know if you are talking about a Fujiyama or a monosteel, but I am 99.9999% sure the monosteel lasers are only available in W#2 in North America, if not worldwide.
~Joe

Comments: I'm short, a home cook, prefer lighter, thinner blades, and own mostly Konosukes but have used over a dozen brands.

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jbart65
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Re: Konosuke hd2 vs Kohetsu HAP40

Post by jbart65 » Tue Oct 17, 2017 9:36 am

You are right, Joe. It's W#2. Don't know why I keep getting it mixed up.
Jeffry B

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Kit Craft
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Re: Konosuke hd2 vs Kohetsu HAP40

Post by Kit Craft » Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:18 am

jbart65 wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 8:59 am
My HD2 and W#2 were almost indentical when I compared side by side. The W#2 was a hair lighter, 4.7 oz vs 4.8 for the HD. I thought my White got a whisper sharper but the HD felt harder and had better edge retention.

I made the switch because I liked the W#2 handle better, but I might just pick up another HD2 one of these days to compare again.
This is helpful, having used a W#2 and a SS but not an HD. I have read reports that the HD seems more stout and that seems maybe to not be the case. I wonder if it has more to do with the metal feeling more dense and that makes the knife feel more solid on the board? Kind of like stone density making a stone feel harder than it is. I guess that would make sense, ss and carbon feel different on the board even if every spec is as identical as it can get. They sound different on board and feel different in hand too. If this makes sense, ss feels kind of slick and carbon kind of gripy.

I am going off on an odd tangent now...more coffee. (I've got a cold so I have been sleeping in late...)

Anyway, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. How the steel feels different in action.

salemj
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Re: Konosuke hd2 vs Kohetsu HAP40

Post by salemj » Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:47 am

I only have one monocarbon blade and it is brand new, but the idea of "sticky" versus "slick" rings true for all of my iron-clad knives. I think that, depending on how a patina develops and how it is nurtured, it can end up a bit grippy sometimes; at the same time, I find patinas are extra-slick right after they've been cleaned up. Go figure.

Jeffry, I totally get it. The fact that lots of honyakis are W1 and that lots of people especially love the W1 Fujiyamas make it easy to relate W1 to Kono more generally, even though Kono Honyakis have traditionally been W2 (and the lasers are W2). I'm very curious if the next major smith is going to switch to W1. I remember reading way back on the site that one of the founders of Konosuke preferred W2 for kitchen knives...perhaps that was why the old Ashi Honyakis were W2. At the same time, I can imagine things changing down the road.

Kit, I know we've been over this, but there is really no comparison between the 210 and 240 Kono lasers. I consider my 210 an oversized petty with all that entails, whereas the 240 is definitely a gyuto in look, feel, and performance. That is all moot, of course: you don't want a laser, and I wouldn't recommend on at this point, either! Unless, of course, the Makoto counts as a laser. Haha.

You said this is for Christmas, right? You should ask Mark for layaway. :). You've earned it, and it will expand your possibilities tremendously between now and then! Haha.
~Joe

Comments: I'm short, a home cook, prefer lighter, thinner blades, and own mostly Konosukes but have used over a dozen brands.

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jbart65
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Re: Konosuke hd2 vs Kohetsu HAP40

Post by jbart65 » Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:39 am

Kit Craft wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 10:18 am
Anyway, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. How the steel feels different in action.
I noticed, Kit, but not in a big way. Certainly not enough to make a big difference to me. The performance was so similar it came down to the handle.

I think a HD will last longer thru a big session without need for sharpening, but that's not an issue for home cooks. I liked the feel of the HD on the board a touch better. Felt more solid. But I have more White knives than any other type and they feel great, too.
Jeffry B

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Kit Craft
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Re: Konosuke hd2 vs Kohetsu HAP40

Post by Kit Craft » Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:19 pm

Joe, right we've been over the size vs performance difference and I have taken that into consideration and might actually pick up another laser in 240 at some point. With my preferences it will be closer to 230. I did not mean to imply that I do not like lasers, I do. Or that I never want to try another one because, again, I do. Just looking at other options at the moment. And layaway, that is a great idea but I don't know what I will end up with. I will give my wife a list of knives and stones and she will choose one or two of each and I will see what I get on the 25th...LOL

Jeffry, thank you. That is actually quite helpful. Just trying to analyze as much as I can, too much is likely the case. Thing is, I can't help it. I am that way with everything.

Eversor13
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Re: Konosuke hd2 vs Kohetsu HAP40

Post by Eversor13 » Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:38 pm

I actually have both, but.... it's been a while since I've used either. From my memory there was a bit of difference in their ease of use and laser-life performance. The HD2, I would say, edges out with the laser like performance. There is probably a huge difference between them in the simple fact that I haven't sharpened the HAP40 from it's factory edge, and I have sharpened the HD2 with an edge pro. There's a bit of hesitation to on my part due to the fear of messing up the edge of the HAP40 with sub-par sharpening skills, and I still have yet to lower the 15 degree edge I set with my HD2, which I realize is not acute enough (I mean to sharpen them by hand eventually).

If I recall correctly, a while ago I did a side-by-side test with an onion, a tomato, and a.... apple? Both cut through very well, and it was clear that they performed better in certain tasks over the other. For the life of me I can't remember which was better at what though... I've been using a Kurosaki hammered R2 240mm almost exclusively now with a bit of a Shibata Kashima on the side. I'll have to do another test on these sometime soon.

Chefcallari
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Re: Konosuke hd2 vs Kohetsu HAP40

Post by Chefcallari » Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:20 am

Eversor13 wrote:
Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:38 pm
I actually have both, but.... it's been a while since I've used either. From my memory there was a bit of difference in their ease of use and laser-life performance. The HD2, I would say, edges out with the laser like performance. There is probably a huge difference between them in the simple fact that I haven't sharpened the HAP40 from it's factory edge, and I have sharpened the HD2 with an edge pro. There's a bit of hesitation to on my part due to the fear of messing up the edge of the HAP40 with sub-par sharpening skills, and I still have yet to lower the 15 degree edge I set with my HD2, which I realize is not acute enough (I mean to sharpen them by hand eventually).

If I recall correctly, a while ago I did a side-by-side test with an onion, a tomato, and a.... apple? Both cut through very well, and it was clear that they performed better in certain tasks over the other. For the life of me I can't remember which was better at what though... I've been using a Kurosaki hammered R2 240mm almost exclusively now with a bit of a Shibata Kashima on the side. I'll have to do another test on these sometime soon.

Ding ding ding ding ding ding! Ladies and gentelman we have a winner! (Well me... So i dont have to buy one and then look for a new apt)

So sir i am intrigued and excited to hear the side by side on those two knives.
And again... I know the steel will be worlds different. Im just very curious to see how they stack up against each other from strictly a performance POV

Eversor13
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Re: Konosuke hd2 vs Kohetsu HAP40

Post by Eversor13 » Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:24 am

I'll give them a decent comparison, but I don't think I'll have time to sharpen them fully before I can go at it. I picked them up last night (but didn't have the time to devote to a food test) and tested their sharpness. Both had no trouble cutting into or shaving my thumb nail so I'd say it should be a fair enough comparison. I'll report back in the next couple/few days.

Chefcallari
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Re: Konosuke hd2 vs Kohetsu HAP40

Post by Chefcallari » Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:05 pm

Eversor13 wrote:
Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:24 am
I'll give them a decent comparison, but I don't think I'll have time to sharpen them fully before I can go at it. I picked them up last night (but didn't have the time to devote to a food test) and tested their sharpness. Both had no trouble cutting into or shaving my thumb nail so I'd say it should be a fair enough comparison. I'll report back in the next couple/few days.
And the knife gods have sent down there champion...

Chefspence
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Re: Konosuke hd2 vs Kohetsu HAP40

Post by Chefspence » Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:03 pm

Interesting. I'll stay tuned

Altadan
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Re: Konosuke hd2 vs Kohetsu HAP40

Post by Altadan » Thu Oct 19, 2017 6:16 pm

This post is really earning its readership now... :lol:

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