Konosuke hd2 vs Kohetsu HAP40

[Kit Craft]

Interesting. I'll stay tuned

Me too. The Kohetsu HAP40 is on my list. It is a steel I have never used.

[Lepus]

A coworker bought a Kohetsu HAP40 recently and I convinced him to lend it to me for a few days in exchange for a Konosuke Ginsan. You're doubly in business.

[Chefcallari]

A coworker bought a Kohetsu HAP40 recently and I convinced him to lend it to me for a few days in exchange for a Konosuke Ginsan. You're doubly in business.

And on the 7th day the culinary gods said " let there be cutting"...


.....and there was

[Lepus]

I ran the Kohetsu through a standard battery of tests at home: salsa, veg stock ingredients, and mushrooms for fried rice. It is a solid, solid knife, but it's surprisingly different from a Konosuke considering their similar specs.

Fit and finish are close to a wash, but the Konosuke wins. The Kohetsu has a neat handle that is pretty comparable to a Konosuke ho handle, but the spine on the Kohetsu could be relieved a little. The choil on the Kohetsu is nicely broken and isn't sharp at all.

In hand the Kohetsu is a little more substantial than the Konosuke and that little more makes a fair difference. Perhaps because of the spine swell on the Kohetsu, or maybe the extra centimeter of length, it really does seem to wear more weight toward the tip. I don't think that is by any means a problem, but the Konosuke tip is more nimble where the Kohetsu's tip is there to go to work.

The Sakai lasers are fluent through product at any point on the knife while the Kohetsu has some surprising variability. The biggest difference is at the heel, where the Kohetsu wears a lower, thicker grind with a thicker edge. It does not have that crisp laser feel of optimized performance and just doesn't feel as good going through onions and the like. But the Kohetsu does have some taper for the last third of the knife, toward the tip section, and that section is a racehore that feels very much like a Sakai laser. All in all this leaves the Kohetsu feeling like the more versatile tool of the two, able to give you a little muscle with the heel.

I get why people say the Kohetsu is a somewhat pedestrian knife, particularly compared to something like a Konosuke. When you pick up the knife it feels similar enough to other lasers that you expect it to fly through food like other lasers, and for many people's usual technique it will not do that. The Kohetsu benefits from using different parts of the knife for different things, much like a KS or a Sabatier. A Konosuke on the other hand feels like the whole thing, from the heel to tip, is all tip, lively and quick.

I would never recommend both of these knives to the same person at the same time. They could certainly live together in a collection. Someone who wants the thinnest, sveltest knife in the drawer should buy... a Shibata. Failing that, a Konosuke. But as a function of value, compared at least to the Konosuke, the Kohetsu wins hands down. It delivers good or even great performance, a novel and optimized core steel, and good fit and finish for much less than the Konosuke. I remember quite a few people liking the Kohetsu bunka and this is giving me serious cause to buy one.

[Kit Craft]

I ran the Kohetsu through a standard battery of tests at home: salsa, veg stock ingredients, and mushrooms for fried rice. It is a solid, solid knife, but it's surprisingly different from a Konosuke considering their similar specs.

Fit and finish are close to a wash, but the Konosuke wins. The Kohetsu has a neat handle that is pretty comparable to a Konosuke ho handle, but the spine on the Kohetsu could be relieved a little. The choil on the Kohetsu is nicely broken and isn't sharp at all.

In hand the Kohetsu is a little more substantial than the Konosuke and that little more makes a fair difference. Perhaps because of the spine swell on the Kohetsu, or maybe the extra centimeter of length, it really does seem to wear more weight toward the tip. I don't think that is by any means a problem, but the Konosuke tip is more nimble where the Kohetsu's tip is there to go to work.

The Sakai lasers are fluent through product at any point on the knife while the Kohetsu has some surprising variability. The biggest difference is at the heel, where the Kohetsu wears a lower, thicker grind with a thicker edge. It does not have that crisp laser feel of optimized performance and just doesn't feel as good going through onions and the like. But the Kohetsu does have some taper for the last third of the knife, toward the tip section, and that section is a racehore that feels very much like a Sakai laser. All in all this leaves the Kohetsu feeling like the more versatile tool of the two, able to give you a little muscle with the heel.

I get why people say the Kohetsu is a somewhat pedestrian knife, particularly compared to something like a Konosuke. When you pick up the knife it feels similar enough to other lasers that you expect it to fly through food like other lasers, and for many people's usual technique it will not do that. The Kohetsu benefits from using different parts of the knife for different things, much like a KS or a Sabatier. A Konosuke on the other hand feels like the whole thing, from the heel to tip, is all tip, lively and quick.

I would never recommend both of these knives to the same person at the same time. They could certainly live together in a collection. Someone who wants the thinnest, sveltest knife in the drawer should buy... a Shibata. Failing that, a Konosuke. But as a function of value, compared at least to the Konosuke, the Kohetsu wins hands down. It delivers good or even great performance, a novel and optimized core steel, and good fit and finish for much less than the Konosuke. I remember quite a few people liking the Kohetsu bunka and this is giving me serious cause to buy one.

Super helpful. I know that helps me a lot and should help a lot of others. Thicker grind at the heel and thinner at the tip, I like that in a knife, a lot. I use the heel for harder tasks. I think you sealed the deal for me. I need one of these, for sure. I like my sab a lot so, yeah.

[gladius]

+1
Great observations by Lepus and very well written descriptions. I too have both knives and I'd like to add a few data points illustrated by photos.

Here are the two side-by-side comparing profiles: note the tip of the Kohetsu sweeps more abruptly making for more strength and power up front. Also notice the up-swept cant on the spine of the Kohetsu HAP-40 and the HD edge has got a gentle curve throughout.



Next notice how the bevel is wider on the Kohetsu as it is slightly beefier throughout with more convexing.



The choil shot also highlights the difference in both height and thickness in the Kohetsu (left).



Top view of the spines also show the difference in thickness between the two and the higher polish of the HD2 (top).

[Kit Craft]

Is the whole shiny part on the kohetsu a bevel or a polished thinning line? I see this a lot on the Kohetsu branded knives and some others and Steve says it leads to the bevel but isn't one, in some of his videos. He does not say this on others. Thing is, from the choil shot it looks like the edge is fairly close to symmetric but from the side view it looks highly asymmetric.

Very nice photos, btw. I really think I am beginning to like this knife.

[gladius]

Is the whole shiny part on the kohetsu a bevel or a polished thinning line?

-------
It is the bevel. These have a 70/30 bevel which I maintain and have made more acute.

[Kit Craft]

Is the whole shiny part on the kohetsu a bevel or a polished thinning line?

-------
It is the bevel. These have a 70/30 bevel which I maintain and have made more acute.

Interesting, it does not look like it from the choil shot. I guess that can be misleading. Thank you.

[Chefspence]

Neve used a kohetsu. Always wanted to, and now even more. I have an hd right now and gophers shibata 240. I used them side by side. Really hard to describe the subtle differences, but I felt like the hd went through product more fluidly. The shibata has more confidence and feels heavier/sturdier and really, I mean really feels like it holds its path. Like gripping into product and going as straight as possible through the product. I swear you can feel the food separation. It also sounds a little different. Super crisp, straight cuts. I don't know exactly how to say it, but I've never used anything that felt this way. Anyhow, meaning to say that the Kono hd I feel is superior to the shibata in fluidity and performance. Just glides through stuff. I of course feel like it's crazy light and that I have to baby it. Only thing I don't like. Otherwise, gosh dang this is a sweet ass knife. As compared with the kohetsu, from a pro standpoint, I feel like I may like that knife better, becausE it has performance and a little more beef. If the performance is as good or better than a ps60...shit...that knife has got to be something specia. I always look at things from a subjective pro tool sort of stance. I can love a knife, but if it won't survive a pro environment, I won't want it even for home use. It's just the way I work with my tools. Idk even know what I started out talking about now. I think I will do a knife swap with Callari and use his kohetsu next to my hd and add some more thoughts!

[Kit Craft]

Nevertheless used a kohetsu. Always wanted to, and now even more. I have an hd right now and gophers shibata 240. I used them side by side. Really hard to describe the subtle differences, but I felt like the hd went through product more fluidly. The shibata has more confidence and feels heavier/sturdier and really, I mean really feels like it holds its path. Like gripping into product and going as straight as possible through the product. I swear you can feel the food separation. It also sounds a little different. Super crisp, straight cuts. I don't know exactly how to say it, but I've never used anything that felt this way. Anyhow, meaning to say that the Kono hd I feel is superior to the shibata in fluidity and performance. Just glides through stuff. I of course feel like it's crazy light and that I have to baby it. Only thing I don't like. Otherwise, gosh dang this is a sweet ass knife. As compared with the kohetsu, from a pro standpoint, I feel like I may like that knife better, becausE it has performance and a little more beef. If the performance is as good or better than a ps60...shit...that knife has got to be something specia. I always look at things from a subjective pro tool sort of stance. I can love a knife, but if it won't survive a pro environment, I won't want it even for home use. It's just the way I work with my tools. Idk even know what I started out talking about now. I think I will do a knife swap with Callari and use his kohetsu next to my hd and add some more thoughts!

I totally understand where you are coming from, Spence. Though I am only a home cook I tend to gravitate toward the pro knives. I used my brothers Kohetsu B#2 and decided I must have one for myself. It feels fluid yet not laser like but can be treated like a brute. That ghastly handle is actually very comfy too! It is on my list now too. My wife likes it too which is interesting. Now, because of this thread I am interested in the AS and HAP40 as well. I think these Kohetsu knives are a hell of a value but I still think the B#2 and the PS60/TK are some of the best values on the site without getting into true budget knives.

While I like my lasers I too feel like I have to baby them. I don't like that feeling. I feel that way about wa knives in general as they feel dainty and delicate even when they are not. I know they can handle more than I give them too. Can't wait to get my hands on the B#2 and do a nice month long comparison to my TK.

I think we need a thread about knives that pros use an feel are great for home users alike. Or something like that. Aside from those who are heavy enthusiasts I would say a lot of home cooks have less good knife skills etc and might too benefit from a knife that can take a beating.

[Eversor13]

Ok, I was finally able to do a bit of cutting with these 2 knives. Because I've also fallen in love with the Kurosaki R2 Hammered I included it in some of the tests as well. The knives I used were the following:

1. Konosuke HD2 240mm gyuto (Sharpened within the past 8 home meals on an edge pro at 15 degrees. This should be more acute and may have affected the results of the test)
2. Kohetsu HAP40 240mm gyuto (Never sharpened)
3. Kurosaki R-2 Hammered 240mm gyuto (Never sharpened)

Before the test, all 3 could easily cut into/shave a thumbnail, and all 3 could shave some hair off of the arm. It's quite possible differences in sharpness affected the outcome of this test, if anything the Kohetsu might have been a hair less sharp than the others. Apples, red onions (VERY large), sweet potatoes (quite small), and russett potatoes were cut. Since they overall performed quite well, I will only be pointing out the differences between them.


Apples: The Konosuke may have cut through the thicker parts of the apple slightly better than the Kohetsu, it was difficult to tell in this task. The Kurosaki did not partake in this test (woops).

Red Onions: The horizontal cuts when finely dicing the onion were noticeably more difficult with the Kohetsu with the same technique when compared to the Konosuke and Kurosaki. The Konosuke I would say performed admirably while the Kurosaki performed exceptionally. To try a slightly different technique with the horizontal cut, I changed the angle of the knife so it would perform more of a slicing action while doing the horizontal cuts (I should have been doing this more all along! I have always had an angle but not a large slicing action). With the different technique the Kohetsu felt like the Konosuke with the original less-slicing action. Using the more-slicing technique with the Kurosaki produced profound results, almost imperceptible resistance doing the horizontal cuts. The Konosuke was noticeably better through all horizontal cutting techniques than the Kohetsu but not better than the Kurosaki.
Doing the vertical cuts back towards the root of the onion was, again, noticeably easier with the Konosuke and Kurosaki than the Kohetsu, and the Kohetsu seemed to have more trouble holding the onion together with the different cuts (my technique probably affected this). In this task, the Konosuke and Kurosaki were more difficult to tell apart, but if I had to give it the edge would go to the Kurosaki.

Sweet Potatoes: Similar story to the onions, but with the denser ingredient the differences really stuck out. Without a doubt the Kohetsu did not perform as well in this task. With the longer/thicker cuts through the sweet potato, using pull or push cuts caused the Kohetsu to get wedged in the sweet potato after 1-1.5 inches through the cut. With the Konosuke there was much less wedging through the different thicknesses of the sweet potato, and less wedging still when using the Kurosaki. I attempted "hot dog" and "hamburger" cuts through the sweet potato and with different parts of each knife and the story was the same or similar for all combinations.

Russett potatoes: Much easier to cut through these potatoes overall. Similar to the apples there isn't much to say, all of the knives did great. I did try creating french fries then cubing the potatoes for the test to see if one knife held it together better, but it was tough to tell.


Overall I found that the Kurosaki was easily the most laser like performer of the bunch, having the least resistance through all of the products. Besides that the Konosuke had very little resistance through most tasks and wedged much less in the denser products than the Kohetsu. From my test I think it's safe to say that the Kohetsu is not clone of the Konosuke's performance through an arrangement of product and that in my tests the difference was quite apparent.
What about the difference between the Kurosaki and Konosuke? In my hand there wasn't nearly as noticeable of a difference between these 2 than between the Konosuke/Kurosaki and Kohetsu, but it was definitely there, especially with dicing the onion and wedging of the sweet potato. I previously mentioned the angle I have put on the Konosuke when sharpening and that could certainly be part of the difference. With the wedging of the sweet potatoes I would imagine that thickness of the blade would have a larger effect than a marginal change in sharpness or sharpening angle but I'll let others have input in this regard.

[jacko9]

I have the Kono HD2 and I love it and I won't be purchasing a Kohetsu just to do a comparison sine the HD2 does the job so well.

[Ko’olau]

I’ve been reading through this thread for days trying to decide if I should get a Kohetsu or wait for the HD2’s to be back in stock. With all the helpful posts of side by side pics and comparisons I decided to get one to use and play around with until HD2’s are back in stock. That way I can get a solid feel for the Kohetsu and it’s nuances before I get my hands on a HD2.

[salemj]

I've learned a lot from this thread. Previously, I had gathered info based mostly on comments related to the Hap40, but in seeing the comparisons it has become much more clear to me that these knives are very different from one another on a number of fronts. Going forward, I don't think I'll refer to the Hap40 the same way as before. Thanks in particular to the choil shot by gladius—hugely different to my eyes—as well as the astute comments above regarding the heel versus tip.

[Chefcallari]

Just wanted to say thank you to you guys for taking the time to compare and contrast both knives.
Really appreciated

[Altadan]

Just wanted to say thank you to you guys for taking the time to compare and contrast both knives.
Really appreciated

+1