Looking for a push-cutting 210 workhorse to add to the collection - help!

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ckcow923
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Looking for a push-cutting 210 workhorse to add to the collection - help!

Post by ckcow923 »

Hey friends!

I'm a pro in a high-volume restaurant and you all previously helped me pick out the Harukaze SRS15 Gyuto 240mm(https://www.chefknivestogo.com/hasrgy24.html) as a solid workhorse that I use for hours on a daily basis at this point to break down root veg to bell peppers. One problem: My go to is push-cutting and I didn't realize it when I bought it but the Harukaze's profile just isn't made for that so it's a task to julienne 30 bell peppers instead of being able to just fly through them.I'm left handed, so 50-50 is what I'm used to (I'm curious about maybe a kiritsuke style but I know a lot of them are single-beveled). I'd say I'm pretty good at sharpening at this point so I'm looking for a knife that holds a decent edge but I don't mind touching it up a few times a week - I'd love some suggestions in the $200-250 range that would relegate my 240 to bulky veg slicing and give me something to use (again, something that has a profile that is more friendly to push-cutting) between that and my 170mm Santoku that I generally use for shallots and fine knife work.

Thanks in advance!

Kevin
Cutuu
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Re: Looking for a push-cutting 210 workhorse to add to the collection - help!

Post by Cutuu »

I would honestly think about jumping on a kioshi right now. They r $9 over budget on sale but perhaps well worth it. They can have some decent flat spots, also phenemal edge retention. With peppers knives that let off a little can be frustrating with peppers, because they dont hold thst really sharp bite. I think it might fit the bill nicely for you. I had the 240 but no experience with the 210, although ive thought of getting a 210 and still may
Last edited by Cutuu on Mon Dec 11, 2017 1:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
gladius
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Re: Looking for a push-cutting 210 workhorse to add to the collection - help!

Post by gladius »

Welcome to the forum!
When you said bell peppers, the Shibata R2 210 immediately came to mind. It is $20 bucks over budget but it is an excellent cutter and twenty bucks you will be glad you spent. The R2s edge lasts through many a prep session and is in-stock. Take a hard look...

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/shkogy21.html

Cutuu
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Re: Looking for a push-cutting 210 workhorse to add to the collection - help!

Post by Cutuu »

Gladius's rec sounds like a good one. Ive heard people say the shibata kashima is the best knive on peppers theyve used. Ive used mine on some and cant argue against it.
Ourorboros
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Re: Looking for a push-cutting 210 workhorse to add to the collection - help!

Post by Ourorboros »

The Yahiko Nashiji has quite a flat spot for a 210mm knife. It's also White 2, so I don't know if it has the edge retention you need.
That said, if I had to prep a lot of vegetables, I'd personally get a nakiri or bunka.
HalfBloodHobbit
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Re: Looking for a push-cutting 210 workhorse to add to the collection - help!

Post by HalfBloodHobbit »

I second the Shibata,
ckcow923
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Re: Looking for a push-cutting 210 workhorse to add to the collection - help!

Post by ckcow923 »

Thanks so much for the recommendations and thought. That Shibata is literally exactly what I'm looking for! Thanks again!
Lepus
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Re: Looking for a push-cutting 210 workhorse to add to the collection - help!

Post by Lepus »

If you had trouble with the Harukaze I could see you having trouble with the Shibata. A lot of people have said the Shibata has a little curvature for most of its length. When you say it isn't suited for pepper, what exactly does that mean?
ckcow923
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Re: Looking for a push-cutting 210 workhorse to add to the collection - help!

Post by ckcow923 »

Lepus wrote: Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:59 am If you had trouble with the Harukaze I could see you having trouble with the Shibata. A lot of people have said the Shibata has a little curvature for most of its length. When you say it isn't suited for pepper, what exactly does that mean?
I love the look of the Shibata and ideology behind the way it's been constructed but on further inspection it might not be the right fit. I'm really looking for a knife that's got less curvature and a flat spot for push cutting. That small curvature throughout the blade reminds me a lot of how my Harukaze is shaped.
ckcow923
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Re: Looking for a push-cutting 210 workhorse to add to the collection - help!

Post by ckcow923 »

I guess to be more specific I love chopping smaller veg with my Santoku but I'm looking for something with some more girth to it so I can do the same kind of quick work to bigger... things. If that makes sense. The Harukaze is a great knife but certainly doesn't lend itself to this kind of chopping.
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Re: Looking for a push-cutting 210 workhorse to add to the collection - help!

Post by Lepus »

It sounds like you want some forward weight. My first thought is to an Anryu Hammered. They're good knives for pro use that can really blow through some food. It might not be as flat as you want at the heel.

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/anhagy21.html

You might consider a Gihei, too. I haven't used one but they come up a lot in these circumstances.
cwillett
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Re: Looking for a push-cutting 210 workhorse to add to the collection - help!

Post by cwillett »

Another recommendation for the Yahiko. Here is the link:

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/yawh2nagy21.html

I have the 240mm version and really like it. There is an honest flat spot for about the rear half of the knife and I never accordion cut scallions or peppers. I primarily push cut, but I also rock occasionally. Although it is white 2, I've found the edge retention to be on par with my blue 2 nakiri and much better than the other white 2 knife that I have. How it would be in a pro environment I have no idea, but it would come in $50 under budget. And it is a really sharp looking knife as well. The handle has a nice grit to it that is reassuring.
easilver
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Re: Looking for a push-cutting 210 workhorse to add to the collection - help!

Post by easilver »

How about one of these:

Gihei B#2
Matsubara B#2
Harakuze SRS15
Ikeda AS
Sukenari K-tip AS
Sukenari AS

The last two are over budget, but look very nice. I have the Sukenari Ginsan and it a great grind and proportioning.
Ed in L.A.
Cutuu
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Re: Looking for a push-cutting 210 workhorse to add to the collection - help!

Post by Cutuu »

Cutuu wrote: Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:45 pm I would honestly think about jumping on a kioshi right now. They r $9 over budget on sale but perhaps well worth it. They can have some decent flat spots, also phenemal edge retention. With peppers knives that let off a little can be frustrating with peppers, because they dont hold thst really sharp bite. I think it might fit the bill nicely for you. I had the 240 but no experience with the 210, although ive thought of getting a 210 and still may
+1 on the kioshi. Id ask for a flat one :lol:
easilver
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Re: Looking for a push-cutting 210 workhorse to add to the collection - help!

Post by easilver »

Do y'all characterize the Koishi and Shibata as a workhorses? They both feel a bit more delicate to me. I would think a taller knife with a thicker spine, and thin behind the edge might be better.

My Koishi was a bit thin and light, though I think some are stouter.

The Gihei is thin behind the edge, but has more up-top to make it workhorsey.

I have the Matsubara tall Nakiri and it is very thin behind the edge. If their 210 Gyuto is the same then it would be a great workhorse with that 4mm spine.
Ed in L.A.
Chicagohawkie
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Re: Looking for a push-cutting 210 workhorse to add to the collection - help!

Post by Chicagohawkie »

easilver wrote: Mon Dec 11, 2017 4:13 pm Do y'all characterize the Koishi and Shibata as a workhorses? They both feel a bit more delicate to me. I would think a taller knife with a thicker spine, and thin behind the edge might be better.

My Koishi was a bit thin and light, though I think some are stouter.

The Gihei is thin behind the edge, but has more up-top to make it workhorsey.

I have the Matsubara tall Nakiri and it is very thin behind the edge. If their 210 Gyuto is the same then it would be a great workhorse with that 4mm spine.
Correct Koishi and Shibata are not WH type knives at all.
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Re: Looking for a push-cutting 210 workhorse to add to the collection - help!

Post by Lepus »

The word workhorse means very little and is highly subjective. A lot of pros have read this term as knives they would be willing to use for and would stand up to extensive prep. I don't think OP necessarily wants what hobbyists would call a workhorse.
ckcow923
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Re: Looking for a push-cutting 210 workhorse to add to the collection - help!

Post by ckcow923 »

Lepus wrote: Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:21 pm The word workhorse means very little and is highly subjective. A lot of pros have read this term as knives they would be willing to use for and would stand up to extensive prep. I don't think OP necessarily wants what hobbyists would call a workhorse.
Correct - I'm using the term not to mean a bulkier knife, but one that has good edge retention and can handle a lot of work without needing to be sharpened as often as other knives. In other words, if I have two knives, and one needs less sharpening/honing than the other, I consider it the 'workhorse'. Sorry if I'm mis-using the phrase.

I appreciate all of the recs and I'm looking at all options right now. Does anyone have experience with any of the 210mm bunka knives offered here? Seems like more of what I am looking for in terms of the profile of the blade. Like these:

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/taaskeb19.html
https://www.chefknivestogo.com/koshbl2bu21.html

Sorry again for any confusion. I want a knife that can hold an edge through the daily grind of a lot of veg prep and some meat that lends itself to more push-cutting and chopping. I like the profile of bunka/santoku's but since they are generally 170mm or less, I'm unsure if I want one of the few that can be had in the larger 210mm versions. My 170mm Gihei santoku just isn't big and bad enough to handle all the veg I need it to, and the Harukaze isn't versatile enough for me (well, maybe it just isn't the knife for me).
gladius
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Re: Looking for a push-cutting 210 workhorse to add to the collection - help!

Post by gladius »

I still think the Shibata Kotetsu is your knife. It is not nearly as curvy as you think. I use the Shibata Bunka 170 for peppers and more without accordion cuts. The 210mm would be a perfect compliment to your 240 & 165.

If you really want a flat edge profile, then a Moritaka Kiritsuke is a good 210mm choice.

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/moas21ki.html

...an ever so slight curve on the edge actually works better IMO though. You will notice this in many Nakiris.
Cutuu
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Re: Looking for a push-cutting 210 workhorse to add to the collection - help!

Post by Cutuu »

Lepus wrote: Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:21 pm The word workhorse means very little and is highly subjective. A lot of pros have read this term as knives they would be willing to use for and would stand up to extensive prep. I don't think OP necessarily wants what hobbyists would call a workhorse.
Thats how i was interpretating the request also. Although i do get what you guys are saying by stouter knives as workhorses.
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