240mm Gyuto - Misono UX10 vs Minamoto VG-10?

We encourage you to post your questions about kitchen knives here. We can give you help choosing a knife.
marlinspike
Posts: 87
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 12:53 pm

240mm Gyuto - Misono UX10 vs Minamoto VG-10?

Post by marlinspike »

I've been able to handle a Misono UX10 210mm in person and liked that, but the Minamoto VG-10 Damascus has caught my eye. I'm looking to get a 240mm gyuto, does anybody know how these two compare against each other? The Minamoto is apparently lighter and thinner at the spine, but it looks from the picture like the Misono is thinner behind the cutting edge?
User avatar
jbart65
Posts: 3276
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:18 pm
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Re: 240mm Gyuto - Misono UX10 vs Minamoto VG-10?

Post by jbart65 »

Going to be hard to find active forum members who've used both of these. Neither is much talked about. The Minamoto has some fans who own smaller versions of the knife.

I've used the UX10. Pretty good knife, but one can get more for the money. Maybe some pros will chime in ...
Jeffry B
Lepus
Posts: 4561
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:06 pm
Location: Durham, NC
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: 240mm Gyuto - Misono UX10 vs Minamoto VG-10?

Post by Lepus »

I don't have much to say on top of what jbart said. I like the UX10 fine but I wouldn't buy one, they're just not a lot of knife for the dollar. If you want generally good performance I would consider a Tojiro R2 if you want stainless or a Goko if you want a reactive knife. For less than the UX10 you could buy the Goko and have it handled with something pretty awesome.

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/gowh1nohagy2.html
marlinspike
Posts: 87
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 12:53 pm

Re: 240mm Gyuto - Misono UX10 vs Minamoto VG-10?

Post by marlinspike »

If you guys don't like the UX10 for the money, what would you recommend for something stainless or stainless clad other than that Tojiro R-2 - something with a very pointy point like the UX10 has.
User avatar
jbart65
Posts: 3276
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:18 pm
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Re: 240mm Gyuto - Misono UX10 vs Minamoto VG-10?

Post by jbart65 »

I’ve used or owned most brands on cktg and I can’t think of any whose tips were not pointy enough for my needs.

What is hard to understand for newcomers to this site is just how much better these knives are compared to all the ones you’ve heard about. It is a leap of faith at first until you have a few of these babies in your hand sharpened to a peak edge.

I could recommend some of the more pointier knives, but it also depends on what else you value. Some of the pointier knives can also require extra carefullness, such as a yoshimune or Koishi. The Harukaze blue or kohetsu hap 40 might be good starting points. The Tanaka Ginsan is another one.

If I were a pro, the kamo r2 and kanehiro as and Ginsan would be at the top of my list. The Saji Ginsan is another standout but it’s pricy.

An absolute killer is the shibata as - better imo than the Konosuke hd2. Super thin and agile, but I don’t know it would hold up in a kitchen.
Jeffry B
User avatar
Kit Craft
Posts: 4844
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:57 pm
Location: Pennsylvania
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: 240mm Gyuto - Misono UX10 vs Minamoto VG-10?

Post by Kit Craft »

It depends on what you like. People call the UX-10 over priced but is it, maybe yes. No more so than any other 19c27 mass produced knife though and that includes some popular lasers. No, it isn't a laser but that is not a bad thing. It has good F&F, a great profile and, takes a nice toothy edge (if you like that), and can take a hell of a beating. I am a Misono fan in general and I like the steel...

I have had both the B#2 and 19c27 Minamoto knives and they are great knives. Awesome even if you consider their price points. What can I say, I like budget knives. However, I have never had the VG10 so I can not say. Minamoto knives are thin at the spine but are not lasers either.

Honest answer, either knife is more than the average home cook will ever need and I think we all forget that, often.
marlinspike
Posts: 87
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 12:53 pm

Re: 240mm Gyuto - Misono UX10 vs Minamoto VG-10?

Post by marlinspike »

Yeah, I wouldn't want a laser in a chef's knife, nor something that you take to an 8000 stone since it doesn't suit the use for a chef's knife, but any gyuto would be accompanied by a bolstered german knife, so it doesn't need to be too heavy either.
fuzion
Posts: 77
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:36 pm

Re: 240mm Gyuto - Misono UX10 vs Minamoto VG-10?

Post by fuzion »

I guess people perceive ux10 as overpriced because at some point the prices for them jumped. But at their current prices, I would say they are an ok choice if you're looking for stainless with western handle etc
Lepus
Posts: 4561
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:06 pm
Location: Durham, NC
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: 240mm Gyuto - Misono UX10 vs Minamoto VG-10?

Post by Lepus »

If someone wants a softer, well made stainless knife, the Mac Pro is in my experience the Misono's match and much less expensive. I think the Fujiwara FKM is 90% as much knife and it is almost $200 less. Other knives like the Kanehides, the Carbonext, the Takayuki Grand Chef, the Takamura lines, the Harukaze/Akifusa SRS-15, and Tojiro's PM steel line just to name a few all offer better optimized steel performance and often better grinds at lower prices.
User avatar
Kit Craft
Posts: 4844
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:57 pm
Location: Pennsylvania
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: 240mm Gyuto - Misono UX10 vs Minamoto VG-10?

Post by Kit Craft »

Yep, I like all of those but I still feel that Misono has its place. Great F&F, substantial feel in hand, great steel and magnificent profile. Also, Misono makes a Moly for about the same price as an FKM. Both are great knives. Other good ones out there at the price point too. Masahiro, for example. Mark does not carry them though.
Lepus
Posts: 4561
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:06 pm
Location: Durham, NC
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: 240mm Gyuto - Misono UX10 vs Minamoto VG-10?

Post by Lepus »

Any of those positives can be said no less stridently for knives like the Mac Pro or Masamoto VG, which cost $60 less, or the Kanehide PS60, which costs $100 less. That Misono also makes a knife that competes pretty well with the UX10 doesn't mean much in favor of the UX10's value.

None of that is to say the UX10 is a bad knife. The UX10 could cost $1000 and it would still be a good knife. There may even be people for whom the UX10 is absolutely perfect, though I think that would be a pretty unique scenario. But value unlike quality is relative. I didn't even bother to compare the knife to the real value powerhouses in its price range, the Gingas and Kashimas and Kurosakis of the knife world, and I really, really don't think it competes well.
fuzion
Posts: 77
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:36 pm

Re: 240mm Gyuto - Misono UX10 vs Minamoto VG-10?

Post by fuzion »

Lepus wrote: Sat Jan 06, 2018 3:38 pm If someone wants a softer, well made stainless knife, the Mac Pro is in my experience the Misono's match and much less expensive. I think the Fujiwara FKM is 90% as much knife and it is almost $200 less. Other knives like the Kanehides, the Carbonext, the Takayuki Grand Chef, the Takamura lines, the Harukaze/Akifusa SRS-15, and Tojiro's PM steel line just to name a few all offer better optimized steel performance and often better grinds at lower prices.
Not sure if I'm reading this correctly, how can FKM be almost $200 less when ux10 can be found for around $200.
Also as you get higher in price, return in cutting performance diminishes. Would you say a $1000 honyaki cuts 10 times better than an FKM?
I'm not trying to say Misono is a great knife for the price, in fact, I traded mine without using it too much. But it's still a well made knife with a good fit and finish, and if someone likes the way it looks and feels I would say go for it.
Lepus
Posts: 4561
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:06 pm
Location: Durham, NC
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: 240mm Gyuto - Misono UX10 vs Minamoto VG-10?

Post by Lepus »

Mark sells the UX10 240mm for $246. Even viewing the knife in a wider context than I had framed it my thoughts don't change. The Misono is still more than the Kanehide knives that compete evenly stride for stride, it still falls short of the better inspired design and execution of a Harukaze, and it's still much costlier than other knives that fill the same roll like a Fujiwara, Misono, Masahiro, or any other high value low cost knife you want to insert here.

So no, of course I wouldn't say a $1000 honyaki cuts ten times better than an FKM. But I do expect a $1000 honyaki to have $920 more worth of value than an FKM, be it from aesthetics, steel selection, grind, design, heat treatment, comfort, artistic heritage, or fit and finish. I don't find the UX10 to offer those elements worth the difference above any of the other knives I listed.
User avatar
Kit Craft
Posts: 4844
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:57 pm
Location: Pennsylvania
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: 240mm Gyuto - Misono UX10 vs Minamoto VG-10?

Post by Kit Craft »

Lepus wrote: Sun Jan 07, 2018 12:51 am
So no, of course I wouldn't say a $1000 honyaki cuts ten times better than an FKM. But I do expect a $1000 honyaki to have $920 more worth of value than an FKM, be it from aesthetics, steel selection, grind, design, heat treatment, comfort, artistic heritage, or fit and finish. I don't find the UX10 to offer those elements worth the difference above any of the other knives I listed.
I think that is 100% subjective. That Honyaki might be $920 more valuable to you and not the next guy. Particularly if that guy is going to use that knife for something that is likely to chip the crap out of the edge etc. Perceived value, imo, is where some of these other knives shine.

That Aside, I do have a fair few of the knives we are talking about and I favor the UX-10 for profile and steel characteristics. Just the simple opinion of one home cook though. I get that others do not feel the same.

Misono is not the only costly knife that gets bought up a lot. Masamoto VG is another and it too is a good knife worth the price, imo, even though it has loads of competition at a much cheaper price point. These knives fit a niche, or at least that is how I look at it.
Cutuu
Posts: 3533
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:00 pm
Has thanked: 285 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Re: 240mm Gyuto - Misono UX10 vs Minamoto VG-10?

Post by Cutuu »

@kit which would you prefer the ux10 or the masamoto vg? Just curious.
User avatar
Kit Craft
Posts: 4844
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:57 pm
Location: Pennsylvania
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: 240mm Gyuto - Misono UX10 vs Minamoto VG-10?

Post by Kit Craft »

Cutuu wrote: Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:10 am @kit which would you prefer the ux10 or the masamoto vg? Just curious.
UX10, I prefer the profile. I have had both but both now belong to relatives. I really prefer mono carbon.

Edit: That is not to imply that either is a bad knife because that would not be true at all. One just better fits my personality. Which was my point to begin with. :)
Cutuu
Posts: 3533
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:00 pm
Has thanked: 285 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Re: 240mm Gyuto - Misono UX10 vs Minamoto VG-10?

Post by Cutuu »

Kit Craft wrote: Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:14 am
Cutuu wrote: Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:10 am @kit which would you prefer the ux10 or the masamoto vg? Just curious.
UX10, I prefer the profile. I have had both but both now belong to relatives. I really prefer mono carbon.
What about toughness, edge retention
User avatar
Kit Craft
Posts: 4844
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:57 pm
Location: Pennsylvania
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: 240mm Gyuto - Misono UX10 vs Minamoto VG-10?

Post by Kit Craft »

Cutuu wrote: Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:17 am
Kit Craft wrote: Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:14 am
Cutuu wrote: Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:10 am @kit which would you prefer the ux10 or the masamoto vg? Just curious.
UX10, I prefer the profile. I have had both but both now belong to relatives. I really prefer mono carbon.
What about toughness, edge retention
Boy, it has been awhile and neither are what I would call dainty. Toughness should be fine on either and edge retention, and this is just from memory, might be slightly in favor of the VG. However, I feel it is slight more robust behind the edge too. However, I do really like the 19c27 used in the UX-10 and have used it on other knives as well. The difference here is not what I would call night and day.

Now, if you were to compare the Masamoto HC to the Misono Dragon it would be no contest. The Dragon is much tougher and the Masamoto has worlds better edge retention.
Cutuu
Posts: 3533
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:00 pm
Has thanked: 285 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Re: 240mm Gyuto - Misono UX10 vs Minamoto VG-10?

Post by Cutuu »

Good info thanks kit
User avatar
Kit Craft
Posts: 4844
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:57 pm
Location: Pennsylvania
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: 240mm Gyuto - Misono UX10 vs Minamoto VG-10?

Post by Kit Craft »

Cutuu wrote: Sun Jan 07, 2018 9:31 am Good info thanks kit
No problem. Just remember, I don't do any scientific stuff to back up my opinion and that is just what I am giving, my opinion. My idea of how to gauge edge retention is like this. Okay, I got two weeks out of it before needing to hit the strop but only 12 days out of the other. Now, what I cut and how long I did so might change slightly, but not a lot. I am fairly predictable. Also, I do that before and after putting my own edge on it. That is about it. No beating it off the board 10000 times or cutting cardboard and rope or all of that.

May not matter to you but some fellows are very particular about these things!
Post Reply