Exploring the world of gyutos

[pgugger]

So, I do not need any more knives... as my wife often reminds me... but I have caught the bug. I enjoy the knives I currently have, but I have limited experience with different styles, makers, steels, etc. So, I would like to have a short list of knives to acquire in the future to help explore the different styles out there and ultimately wind up with a few favorites or complementary knives. I want to focus on handmade Japanese gyutos. Currently, have a Masakage Koishi, Kurosaki AS, and Masamoto VG (and CCK 1303 cleaver). Two I am strongly considering (regardless of whether they are in stock) are the Konosuke HD2 as an example of a "laser" and a Takeda NAS Medium Gyuto because it seems unique and iconic. I also wonder about Konosuke Fujiyama (blue or white?), Tanaka, and various others. What do you think would be two or three or four good knives to put on my list to try more styles, makers, steels, etc.?

Thanks for your thoughts!

1)Pro or home cook?
-Home

2)What kind of knife do you want? (Gyuto, Santuko, Petty, Paring, Sujihiki, etc.)
-Gyuto

3) What size knife do you want?
-240 mm, maybe 210mm

4)How much do you want to spend?
<$400 per knife, $250-350 is realistic

5) Do you prefer all stainless, stainless clad over reactive carbon, or all reactive carbon construction?
-Any

6)Do you prefer Western or Japanese handle?
-Japanese

7)What are your main knife/knives now?
-Masakage Koishi 240 mm, Kurosaki AS 210 mm, Masamoto VG, CCK 1303 cleaver

8)Are your knife skills excellent, good, fair?
-Good

9)What cutting techniques do you prefer? Are you a rocker, chopper or push/pull cutter?
-Chop, push/pull, rock in that order.

10)Do you know how to sharpen?
-Yes

[delmar]

Really like to hear that you want to explore.

Think about the shibata KS in R2 (powdered steel). Would give you a blade the stacks up against your cutting technique and a steel you don't have, plus it is pretty darn laserish in performance. I'd focus on gyutos with generous flat spots on them with your propensity to chop.

The takeda's are pretty thin too, so you will get some laser qualities out of them. HD2's are amazing knives. I can't argue with either of those picks. I really like the tanaka ginsan and blue#2 damascus - can't go wrong with either (you can have them rehandled or guy elsewhere with upgraded handles if the stock handles bug you).

I'm not 100% sure what you mean by handmade, though. A fair amount of knives (including the HD2 and Shibata, I believe) are laser cut and not hand forged, but a lot of craftsmanship goes into the knife after getting cut, particularly the grind. Here's a good link on the topic - https://www.chefknivestogoforum.com/kon ... 3-s20.html.

[J david]

The HD2, the Takeda, and the fujiyama blue are three different styles of knife that represent amongst the best in their categories. They are all examples that belong in the afecianado's collection. I would like to offer the Toyama as a fourth selection that is very different from those you have offered. Mark is receiving some soon and you should definately go for one if possible. These are all top class knives and you would do VERY well with trying any of them.

[pgugger]

Thanks for these suggestions. So far, it sounds like I am on the right track with some of the ones I mentioned. From what I have seen on other sites, Toyama might serve well to experience the heavier "workhorse" end of the spectrum. As for the "laser", I was thinking about Shibata versus HD2 and noticed that they have come up together a few times in the forum... I'll have to give that some more thought...

I'm not 100% sure what you mean by handmade, though. A fair amount of knives (including the HD2 and Shibata, I believe) are laser cut and not hand forged, but a lot of craftsmanship goes into the knife after getting cut, particularly the grind. Here's a good link on the topic - https://www.chefknivestogoforum.com/kon ... 3-s20.html.

I suppose I mean that there is a substantial artisanal aspect, but I guess that would apply to most knives on CKTG. I just meant to avoid very high production, large automated factory type stuff. I wondered about the HD2... thanks for that link.

[Rufus Leaking]

How about a Tanaka Sekiso with a new handle by one of the righteous dudes here on this site? Best of both worlds- get a really nice, well liked blade AND a custom handle. Nice grind, beautiful, developes a great patina, throw another $75-$100 at a unique handle, and it’s functional art in motion. You could easily do worse with a $300 purchase of something more arcane that can’t touch that blade.

[Lepus]

This is a great way to approach this. I would suggest you consider trying to get in on a few passarounds and swaps, too. They have taught me a lot, more than I coild have afforded to try myself.

I would consider exploring based on region as well as different steels. Some makers are isolated, but some are part of,little conclave that make similar knives. You have two great Echizen knives with some strong similarities and other Echizen knives will mirror some of that. The most different Echizen knife I own is my Kashima, which is a good bit thinner than the other Echizen knives and has a profile taken from a Masamoto. It's an excellent laser, one I prefer to similar Konosukes, but I don't think the R2 core is particularly appropriate for you here. It's an effective rather than fun steel.

The Toyama is a Sanjo knife and other Sanjo knives include Gihei and the Yahiko hairline white #2. We're passing around the Yahiko and reviews should start popping up soon if you want something that may be similar to a Toyama at a lower price.

I've been trying Sanjo knives recently, I think three new ones in the last six months with two more in the mail, and they have grown on me a lot. I wrote a little about it in the new knife thread and my recent Gihei review. I think I'm going to start a general thread, too.

Konosuke is a Sakai brand. As far as the Western market is concerned, they might for better and worse be the Sakai brand. Supply hasn't been able to match demand for the past few years. Konosuke is apparently in the works shuffling around the Fujiyama line and they may become more available in the next year or so, but for now it is hard to get one. I would pick the lower hanging fruit first. The HD2 is a little easier to find. I get the impression you can get one with a little effort whereas six months ago they were nearly unobtainable.

I would also consider a Goko, a Hinoura, a Doi, a Moritaka, and yes a Takeda.

[Nmiller21k]

I would throw out there the kikuichi warkomi damascuss for lasers
More laser than an HD2 and a better edge holding imo having used both I love that one a lot more than the Kono

[Nmiller21k]

Least we forget a Masamoto KS

[J david]

Least we forget a Masamoto KS

Masamoto KS? Never heard about that one. Is it something new?

[jbart65]

*Masamoto KS? For sure. See Kit's comments on the new arrivals and review section.

*Tanaka Sekiso. My single best knife. Tanaka doesn't seem to really fall into any camp. Blue steel that holds a great edge. Nice convex grind. Superb profile - one of the few knives on CKTG that is quite adept at rocking while still be able to push and chop. I recently borrowed a much more expensive Kato that is a work of art, but my Sekiso outperformed it on almost every task. Only the tip of the Kato outperformed the Sekiso, and just marginally so. Will need a rehandle, though.

*Shibata AS - The best laser in my view. I've owned a Kikuichi and several Konosuke lasers. The only one I own now is the Shibata. Maybe the sharpest knife I've ever used. All the more amazing is that it's stainless clad in AS steel. Next best thing to powdered metal on edge holding.

*Ginsan - Kanehiro, Saji and Tayayuki all make exceptional ginsan knives. To me ginsan is the best stainless metal. Takes a keen edge, holds it pretty well and sharpens easily much like white steel.

The Takayuki is a work of art and priced as such. A meatier, confident knife that reminded me of a Kato in its unique craftmanship. The one I bought was a bit too heavy for me and the tip not as fluent as I like, but it's still a great one.

The Kanehiro is a fantastic all-rounder with a look that I called refined rustic.

The Saji is smooth and sleek, with a profile similar to Masakage offerings. Gets the sharpest of all of them.

Swedish steel is similar to ginsan and quite good. I've got a Konosuke Swedish petty that's quite good.

R2, as Lepus noted, is a terrific metal, but it does feel different on a wood cutting board. Still worth trying, though. You can always sell if it's not your cup of tea. Kamo and Kurosaki make excellent R2. So does Shibata if you choose not to get the AS Shibata.

*Masakage Koishi. Laser tip, mid-weight heel. A unique knife among the many unique ones on CKTG. Nothing like it.

*Yoshimune W#1. Superb rendition of white steel, a unique gyuto tip and the funkiest kurouchi or finish among the many knives I've tried. These don't come in stock often and the maker is getting up there in age. Worth getting one if you can.

*Yahiko Nashiji W#2. White 1 and 2 are subtly different. The Yahiko is different than a lot of knives on CKTG. Purportedly made by Yoshikane. A pronounced chopper and push cutter with smooth cutting action and distinctly good looks to match.

[Kalaeb]

Your two recs of HD2 and Takeda are great knives and IMO are must tries for Japanese knife nuts. Although, if you are getting a Takeda, get the AS classic line, not the stainless, it has much more character and is the one generally regarded to have the best geometry.

The HD is also iconic and will give a good example of a laser while you are looking at it take a look at the Sukenari line as well, I still classify them as laser at 2ish mm at the spine but feel they have a slight edge on the grind with better food release.

[pgugger]

Wow, thanks everyone. This is great list of options to sort through. This is becoming an expensive hobby! But I would love to get in on some passarounds at some point if I qualify.