My next step knife suggestions please

We encourage you to post your questions about kitchen knives here. We can give you help choosing a knife.
Lounge_Fly
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:49 pm

My next step knife suggestions please

Post by Lounge_Fly »

1)Pro or home cook? Home

2)What kind of knife do you want? (Gyuto, Santuko, Petty, Paring, Sujihiki, etc.) I’ve been using a standard chef knife for years. I’m not really sure if a Gyuto is all that different. I guess a chef or gyuto.

3) What size knife do you want? 210 or 240. I’m not really sure.

4)How much do you want to spend? $100

5) Do you prefer all stainless, stainless clad over reactive carbon, or all reactive carbon construction? No clue. I have a 1000/3000 whetstone but I’m not sure that would be good for a chef knife.

6)Do you prefer Western or Japanese handle? I think I would prefer the western

7)What are your main knife/knives now? The name is worn off but I think it was about a $50 knife purchased at Bed Bath and Beyond or Kohls.

8)Are your knife skills excellent, good, fair? Good

9)What cutting techniques do you prefer? Are you a rocker, chopper or push/pull cutter? Push pull and rocker

10)Do you know how to sharpen? Not really. Want to learn. I have a Spyderco sharpener where the stones are the shape of a triangle and the are straight up and down at either a 40 or 30 degree angle. I believe a chefs knife is supposed to be much less than that.

I like to cook a lot but for now, I mostly cut veggies and herbs. I just enjoy cooking and really enjoy using the knife!

I almost purchased the Fujiwara FKM Stainless Gyuto 240mm yesterday.
https://www.chefknivestogo.com/fufkmgy24.html

Thanks for any help.
J david
Posts: 1109
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:07 pm
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: My next step knife suggestions please

Post by J david »

The Fujiwara FKM line is a good place to start. You may be better served with a gyuto if you are looking to have a do anything knife. The sujihiki is more suited to slicing protein than cutting veg. You can kind of do it all with a gyuto.

Another line to consider would be the Tojiro DP.
https://www.chefknivestogo.com/tojiro-dp-f-8081.html


Or the Kanahide TK.
https://www.chefknivestogo.com/katkgy21.html
Lounge_Fly
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:49 pm

Re: My next step knife suggestions please

Post by Lounge_Fly »

Thank you for the suggestions. The Tojiro DP is also in my cart. It may be silly but I liked the writing on the Fujuwara better. ;) From the reading I've done, it would seem that they're both good and I should be happy with either one???
User avatar
Jeff B
Posts: 14741
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:59 pm
Location: Louisville, Kentucky
Has thanked: 1954 times
Been thanked: 2324 times

Re: My next step knife suggestions please

Post by Jeff B »

Being your first Japanese knife I would think you would be happy with either.
If God wanted me to be a vegetarian he wouldn't have made animals taste so good.
J david
Posts: 1109
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 5:07 pm
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: My next step knife suggestions please

Post by J david »

I would think both would be a large upgrade to what you are currently using. Aesthetics play a role for sure, so if one catches your eye more than the other, go for it. I don't know what 1k/3k stone you have, but that should be more than adequate to maintain a knife, at least for a while. I wouldn't recommend going higher than 3k on these as a beginner. Spend some time in the sharpening forums.
Lounge_Fly
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:49 pm

Re: My next step knife suggestions please

Post by Lounge_Fly »

Cool! I'll be ordering the Fujuwara. I think. I really enjoy researching these sorts of purchases. I've learned so much just reading this forum.
User avatar
jbart65
Posts: 3276
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:18 pm
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Re: My next step knife suggestions please

Post by jbart65 »

I am a bit of an outlier on Fujiwaras and Tojiro DPs. I just don't think they separate themselves enough between a German knife like Henckels or Wusthof and a true Japanese knife.

You wonder if a gyuto is all that much different? Knives are knives, right? Uh, no. These things are so much sharper and the edges last much longer.

I had a hard time a few years ago plunking down $100 for knife. But that was thousands of dollars ago!

Alas, budgets are good. But I think you are better off saving a bit longer and spending more. How much more? At least $150. And go for a wa handle. Lighter than German handles and makes a knife easier to handle.

Harukaze AS 210, a Makoto White Damascus if they come back in stock soon, a Yuki (OOS), or even a Kanehide PS or TK. Drop down to a Santuko and a Makoto can be had for $140.

If you really want to experience the peak of sharpness, a Takamura R2 stainless santoku Western handle for $160. Few knives get sharper than this one at any price.

Still not willing to shell out so much? Get a $40 ITK Tojiro santoku. Sharper than the DP and it will give you an idea of what J knives are about as genre. Reactive as hell and not the best fit and finish, but my cheap ITK cuts far better than any German knife. It can become a practice knife later on if/when you graduate, as I did, to finer knives.
Last edited by jbart65 on Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Jeffry B
User avatar
Jeff B
Posts: 14741
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:59 pm
Location: Louisville, Kentucky
Has thanked: 1954 times
Been thanked: 2324 times

Re: My next step knife suggestions please

Post by Jeff B »

The Kanehide TK Gyuto is a lot of knife for the money and still around your budget. I like it a lot more than the Fujiwara and Tojiro. It gets very sharp and is an incredible cutter. You do have to take into consideration that it is semi-stainless and will require a little more attention than a full stainless and will eventually take on a "gray-ish" patina.
The Fujiwara will definately be a step up from your current knives but do temper your expectations, it is at the low end of the spectrum when it comes to J-knives.
If God wanted me to be a vegetarian he wouldn't have made animals taste so good.
Puduu
Posts: 30
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:33 pm

Re: My next step knife suggestions please

Post by Puduu »

jbart65 wrote: Sun Feb 11, 2018 7:00 pm I am a bit of an outlier on Fujiwaras and Tojiro DPs. I just don't think they separate themselves enough between a German knife like Henckels or Wusthof and a true Japanese knife.

You wonder if a gyuto is all that much different? Knives are knives, right? Uh, no. These things are so much sharper and the edges last much longer.

I had a hard time a few years ago plunking down $100 for knife. But that was thousands of dollars ago!

Alas, budgets are good. But I think you are better off saving a bit longer and spending more. How much more? At least $150. And go for a wa handle. Lighter than German handles and makes a knife easier to handle.

Harukaze AS 210, a Makoto White Damascus if they come back in stock soon, a Yuki (OOS), or even a Kanehide PS or TK. Drop down to a Santuko and a Makoto can be had for $140.

If you really want to experience the peak of sharpness, a Takamura R2 stainless santoku Western handle for $160. Few knives get sharper than this one at any price.

Still not willing to shell out so much? Get a $40 ITK Tojiro santoku. Sharper than the DP and it will give you an idea of what J knives are about as genre. Reactive as hell and not the best fit and finish, but my cheap ITK cuts far better than any German knife. It can become a practice knife later on if/when you graduate, as I did, to finer knives.
I concur. A DP is fine for a petty, but for something you want to use as your main tool in the kitchen, my preference would be to splurge a little bit more (or wait until it is possible to do so). Something a little more exotic than a DP, with a Wa handle, will feel quite special and, in my opinion, give you a better sense of the differences between Japanese chef knives and Western chef knives.

When you will want to learn to sharpen it is an all around better learning experience on something that already has a good consistent grind. I'm not knocking the Tojiros in this respect, but I picked up an very inexpensive Tojiro deba to learn about maintaining a single bevel; but I learned much more about fixing an inconsistent grind.
salemj
Posts: 3709
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:27 pm
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Has thanked: 197 times
Been thanked: 528 times

Re: My next step knife suggestions please

Post by salemj »

Yeah. The Kanehide TK is still within budget, essentially. It agree with some above that this is probably your best best. And don't worry about semi-stainless—these are very, very far from carbon and much, much closer to stainless. All you really lose is the stainless "shine," but otherwise they just become a little more pewter in color with use and - as long as you take basic care of the knife and don't leave it wet for LONG periods or throw it in the dishwasher - it will never come close to rusting or anything like that.
~Joe

Comments: I'm short, a home cook, prefer lighter, thinner blades, and own mostly Konosukes but have used over a dozen brands.
Lounge_Fly
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:49 pm

Re: My next step knife suggestions please

Post by Lounge_Fly »

I have been busy the last few days and haven't gotten around to checking this thread. Right now I'm wishing I would've. I'm not really happy with this knife. One thing I'm not liking is the length. I went with the 240 figuring and inch and some won't be much different than my 8' (don't know the brand) knife with a large bolster and the finger guard. I don't believe this knife will make me want to learn to cook more.

I play guitar. I have a lot of them and have bought and sold about 50 over the years. I have/had many that are very similar, sort of like when looking at different knives. Although, they play and sound A LOT DIFFERENT. This feels like what I would expect from a low priced guitar. In the case of the guitar I can change pickups, tuners, etc. With the knife, that's not as easy. The rivets bite into my hand. The top of the blade, where I pinch grip it, is sharp. With that said, I would probably be able to get past that stuff if I would've just ordered the 210! Now I don't want to be the new customer who's never happy.

I will say that I'm not someone who expects a low priced product to look, feel and perform like the expensive ones. If I had to buy it again, I would look into the other suggestions. I almost bought a Shun that was $150 until finding this forum. I was at Bed Bath and Beyond and looked really cool! I wasn't sure I would like the handle and didn't ask to try it. It was the traditional Japanese handle, I think?? It was a round handle. I'm not versed on the differences in handles. This link has a picture of a knife that has an identical shape to my old knife. The only difference is that my handle has three rivets and it's black all the way to the end. https://cdn.jamieoliver.com/news-and-fe ... review.jpg I included this link because I really like the knife shape but I don't like the guard. This Fujiwara has a similar handle that I like, it just doesn't feel as smooth as my current one. I've been using my same knife for at least 15 years. This longer knife is going to be really hard to get used to. I'm not sure I really want to. Ugh!

I will be ordering more knives soon. It's not that I don't want to spend more, I just want to work my way up. I find it fun to sort of collect stuff. That is why I have so many guitars I don't need them all, but I really enjoy them. I will own many more cooking knives in the future. For now, I might need to look into the return policy and at least get the same knife but in the 210 size.

Thanks again for the help!
Lounge_Fly
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:49 pm

Re: My next step knife suggestions please

Post by Lounge_Fly »

jbart65, I really like the Makoto White #2 Damascus :)
kmtyb
Posts: 51
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2017 4:24 pm

Re: My next step knife suggestions please

Post by kmtyb »

Lounge Fly,

I also play and collect guitar :). Anyhow, one of my first Japanese knives was Takamura R2 Gyuto and its a $80 more than what you want to spend but well worth it.

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/takamura.html

It was like the first time I played cocobolo acoustic guitar. Takamura blew me away! Now I have 3 acoustic guitar made from cocobolo back and sides and too many Japanese knives that I lost count:(.
Naples09
Posts: 96
Joined: Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:03 pm
Location: Tampa, FL

Re: My next step knife suggestions please

Post by Naples09 »

Lounge_Fly wrote: Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:38 pm I have been busy the last few days and haven't gotten around to checking this thread. Right now I'm wishing I would've. I'm not really happy with this knife. One thing I'm not liking is the length. I went with the 240 figuring and inch and some won't be much different than my 8' (don't know the brand) knife with a large bolster and the finger guard. I don't believe this knife will make me want to learn to cook more.

I play guitar. I have a lot of them and have bought and sold about 50 over the years. I have/had many that are very similar, sort of like when looking at different knives. Although, they play and sound A LOT DIFFERENT. This feels like what I would expect from a low priced guitar. In the case of the guitar I can change pickups, tuners, etc. With the knife, that's not as easy. The rivets bite into my hand. The top of the blade, where I pinch grip it, is sharp. With that said, I would probably be able to get past that stuff if I would've just ordered the 210! Now I don't want to be the new customer who's never happy.

I will say that I'm not someone who expects a low priced product to look, feel and perform like the expensive ones. If I had to buy it again, I would look into the other suggestions. I almost bought a Shun that was $150 until finding this forum. I was at Bed Bath and Beyond and looked really cool! I wasn't sure I would like the handle and didn't ask to try it. It was the traditional Japanese handle, I think?? It was a round handle. I'm not versed on the differences in handles. This link has a picture of a knife that has an identical shape to my old knife. The only difference is that my handle has three rivets and it's black all the way to the end. https://cdn.jamieoliver.com/news-and-fe ... review.jpg I included this link because I really like the knife shape but I don't like the guard. This Fujiwara has a similar handle that I like, it just doesn't feel as smooth as my current one. I've been using my same knife for at least 15 years. This longer knife is going to be really hard to get used to. I'm not sure I really want to. Ugh!

I will be ordering more knives soon. It's not that I don't want to spend more, I just want to work my way up. I find it fun to sort of collect stuff. That is why I have so many guitars I don't need them all, but I really enjoy them. I will own many more cooking knives in the future. For now, I might need to look into the return policy and at least get the same knife but in the 210 size.

Thanks again for the help!
I agree with you that going from an 8" to a 240 is a big jump. I would recommend picking up a 210 and giving it a try - any brand on the site will be a step up for you. If you like the 210 then just list the 240 for sale. If you price it right, someone will buy it.
Lounge_Fly
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:49 pm

Re: My next step knife suggestions please

Post by Lounge_Fly »

I've never played a cocobola guitar. I have owned a koa and a Taylor Grand Symphony. I sold both due to them being soooo nice. I couldn't stand to worry about it getting damaged. I leave all my guitars out on stands or hung on the wall. Luckily my wife is cool with that. One day I would like to get a nice acoustic again. The Takamura's look cool. I have this one in my cart, just in case I return the Fujuwara. https://www.chefknivestogo.com/takamura.html
Lounge_Fly
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:49 pm

Re: My next step knife suggestions please

Post by Lounge_Fly »

Naples09, If I return it I will get a 210. The return policy is fair. Now I just need to pick a winner!
User avatar
jbart65
Posts: 3276
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:18 pm
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 105 times

Re: My next step knife suggestions please

Post by jbart65 »

The example of guitars is a great prism through which to view small-production Japanese knives. As as discerning knife user, limited for most of my life to European knives, I was shocked to learn how small variances in Japanese knives could result in notable differences in how they perform.

When I first got on this path several years ago, I initially bought a Takamura R2 210 and Kanehide PS60 240. I was leery of wa handles because they seemed so exotic and I was unsure what size knife I would like. Although I had used 6 to 8 inch European knives for years, I was encouraged to try a 240 and so I did.

Both are excellent knives for the money but the Takamura was stunner. Never had I used anything that seemed so sharp - scary sharp even.

I was hooked.

Soon I gravitated to wa handles and I haven't looked back. Look, a good handle is a good handle. Wa handles tend to be simple and neutral in the hand, not curved and molded like Western ones. They are much lighter and contribute mightily to the nimble feel of so many Japanese knives. I only own one knife with a Western handle now and it's a lighter olivewood handle.

I am not saying Western handles are bad, mind you. They are great for pros in a busy kitchen or people who leave their knives in the sink. Some look real nice, too. But some have weird shapes and others are so heavy it can detract from performance.

I used to have a 10-inch Wusthof Classic, for example, but I didn't use it much because it felt like a monster.

Or consider the 240 DP. It's listed at 9.4 ounces! The Makoto 240 is listed at about 6 ounces. That 3-ounce different is huge. The Makoto feels much more nimble even though it's the same length. It's easier to cut with, too. Lasers like the famed Konusuke HD2 are even lighter - a 240 runs a mere 4.8 ounces.

But go ahead and get a Takamura. It has a very light Western handle, feels good in the hand and its uber-sharp edge will lift the veil from over your eyes! (-:

At some point you will want to try a wa-handled 240 in the 6-7 ounce range or even lighter. I switched to 240s after a few months of my J knife experience and that's what I mostly use now. I have excellent motor skills and I think I can do anything with a 240 just as well as I can with a 210 - plus more. It's all about your skills and experience.

Just be careful. Even after buying or trying some 75 knives, I still want to try more. It's an expensive habit even though I've resold most of what I've bought, but I still find pleasure in discovering the idiosyncracies of different knives.
Jeffry B
gladius
Posts: 5295
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:59 pm
Has thanked: 780 times
Been thanked: 911 times

Re: My next step knife suggestions please

Post by gladius »

If you want to stay with a western handle, the Kanehide PS60 Gyuto 210mm <= is a great choice with good steel that is easy to keep sharp. I think this will bring you the most enjoyment; as you learn to sharpen it will be most rewarding.

Make sure you include a stone to keep it sharp like the Imanishi Two Sided 1K/6K Stone <=.
Lounge_Fly
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Feb 11, 2018 3:49 pm

Re: My next step knife suggestions please

Post by Lounge_Fly »

I tried the knife on some veggies and I think I would like the 240 with some more use. The problem is the top of knife, where I pinch, is cutting in to the side of my finger. I'm wondering if I'm doing something wrong? Maybe I've been doing the pinch grip wrong all these years. If I'm not and that's just the way it is, I will have to send it back. I'm guessing I'm doing something wrong. I'll try again tomorrow before sending it back. I just don't want to use it much in case I return it.
Lepus
Posts: 4561
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 10:06 pm
Location: Durham, NC
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: My next step knife suggestions please

Post by Lepus »

You are using it as intended, that area just needs to be relieved. It bothers some people more than others. You can do it yourself, it is a five minute process with a little 220 grit sandpaper, or return the knife in favor of something with a relieved spine and choil. I imagine Mark would be willing to relieve the spine and choil if you asked as part of his sharpening service, too.

Mark is pretty good about good faith returns. I would send him an email and ask for suggestions.
Post Reply