Looking for a - 240 - wide bevel - KU finish

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Bensbites
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Looking for a - 240 - wide bevel - KU finish

Post by Bensbites » Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:31 pm

1)Pro or home cook?
Home

2)What kind of knife do you want? (Gyuto, Santuko, Petty, Paring, Sujihiki, etc.)
Gyuto

3) What size knife do you want?
240 mm or bigger than a 210

4)How much do you want to spend?
Less than $300

5) Do you prefer all stainless, stainless clad over reactive carbon, or all reactive carbon construction?
I don’t care, but I am drawn to KU finishes

6)Do you prefer Western or Japanese handle?
Wa

7)What are your main knife/knives now?
Tojiro ITK nakiri, a couple home brewed bunkas, Yoshimitsu 210 blue #2 bunka, artifex SAB, artifex 210 gyuto, CCK cleaver

8)Are your knife skills excellent, good, fair? Good for a home cook. I don’t chip my blades.

9)What cutting techniques do you prefer? Are you a rocker, chopper or push/pull cutter?
Chop, push, pull

10)Do you know how to sharpen?
Yes

I borrowed a 240 koishi from a friend and was blown away. I liked everything about it.

Thin behind the edge, enough body that it doesn’t feel like toy.

I am drawn to the wide bevel KU look.

I am thinking about a makoto or koishi, but I wanted to ask the hive to see what else I am missing.

Thank you
Ben

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Jeff B
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Re: Looking for a - 240 - wide bevel - KU finish

Post by Jeff B » Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:57 pm

The Kurosaki AS comes to mind too. https://www.chefknivestogo.com/kuasku24gy.html
Excellent performance and very confident feeling. But if your going to that level you may as well
get the Koishi since you know you like it. The Makoto is a great looking and performing knife and
will save you $100 over the Koishi. The Koishi has chiseled kanji, better food release and slightly
better edge retention. Is it worth the extra cash, that's in the eye of the beholder.

All great knives you can't go wrong with.
If God wanted me to be a vegetarian he wouldn't have made animals taste so good.

Bensbites
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Re: Looking for a - 240 - wide bevel - KU finish

Post by Bensbites » Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:42 pm

Jeff B wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:57 pm
The Kurosaki AS comes to mind too. https://www.chefknivestogo.com/kuasku24gy.html
Excellent performance and very confident feeling. But if your going to that level you may as well
get the Koishi since you know you like it. The Makoto is a great looking and performing knife and
will save you $100 over the Koishi. The Koishi has chiseled kanji, better food release and slightly
better edge retention. Is it worth the extra cash, that's in the eye of the beholder.

All great knives you can't go wrong with.
Thanks. I was told by a repeat customer, his makoto will make it in eventually and I should play with it if I haven’t picked one up yet. I check the makoto page every couple days, if I see a “last one” I will most likely pull the trigger.

I always say as a home cook, I don’t care what steel the blade is made from, I care more about quality grinds and heat treat. At $130 the makoto seems like a steal, but there are other sub $200 knives on CKTG that could easily satisfy my criteria.

Lepus
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Re: Looking for a - 240 - wide bevel - KU finish

Post by Lepus » Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:18 pm

The grind on my Makoto competes with my recollection of the Koishi. It is an excellent cutter. I have not used a Koishi in a few years to evaluate them well comparatively where Jeff and others have, but I don't consider the Makoto a budget choice.

The Koishi does definitely win in retention and aesthetics. The Koishi is a composed package with a handle, finish, and markings that compliment one another where the Makoto is not. The Makoto sharpens as beautifully as any white steel, though, and still holds a decent edge.

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Jeff B
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Re: Looking for a - 240 - wide bevel - KU finish

Post by Jeff B » Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:51 pm

You are right on the money here Lepus. I feel like the Makoto hangs right there with the Koishi in performance and definitely gets crazy sharp with little effort. There are a few little nuances that put the Koishi ahead as a package but does it equate to being worth an extra $100? That depends on the individual. I don't look at the Makoto as a budget knife either but a high quality knife that can only be had at it's current price because Makoto is new on the scene. I expect to see some minor up grades as Makoto establishes himself and these knives will soar in price!
If God wanted me to be a vegetarian he wouldn't have made animals taste so good.

Bensbites
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Re: Looking for a - 240 - wide bevel - KU finish

Post by Bensbites » Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:55 pm

Jeff B wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 8:51 pm
You are right on the money here Lepus. I feel like the Makoto hangs right there with the Koishi in performance and definitely gets crazy sharp with little effort. There is a few little nuances that put the Koishi slightly ahead as a package but does it equate to being worth an extra $100? That depends on the individual. I don't look at the Makoto as a budget knife but a high quality knife that can only be had at it's current price because Makoto is new on the scene. I expect to see some minor up grades as Makoto establishes himself and these knives will soar in price!
You guys are making this easy for me. Sounds like I haven’t missed anything except for the makoto in the classifieds.

SteveG
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Re: Looking for a - 240 - wide bevel - KU finish

Post by SteveG » Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:45 pm

@Bensbites, I have a Makoto W#2 High Grade 240 Gyuto in for video right now. I haven't used it and will be sending back as new. I'll PM you when I ship them back to Mark so you can look for the re-stock on Qty 1 :-). Who knows, maybe you can work out something with Mark on getting this one.

Cutuu
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Re: Looking for a - 240 - wide bevel - KU finish

Post by Cutuu » Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:06 pm

The handle is really nice on the makato imo. The kioshi is real looker overall though.

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jbart65
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Re: Looking for a - 240 - wide bevel - KU finish

Post by jbart65 » Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:42 pm

Makoto makes a splendid knife. Best deal on CKTG unless it’s got a pricy custom handle.

But my Koishi is unquestionably better. More refined, better edge retention, finer tip. Mine cut better mid blade on dense ingredients than the Makoto.

Now, my version of the Koishi is undoubtedly a superb one. So was the Makoto I owned. But to me the extra money for the Koishi was worth it - if you have it. These knives are close but I could tell a difference.

My advice is ... get both and sell one later.
Jeffry B

Bensbites
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Re: Looking for a - 240 - wide bevel - KU finish

Post by Bensbites » Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:45 pm

jbart65 wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:42 pm

My advice is ... get both and sell one later.
Now that is an interesting idea.

So there are no other smiths on CKTG that I should be looking at?

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jbart65
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Re: Looking for a - 240 - wide bevel - KU finish

Post by jbart65 » Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:09 pm

I had both - and sold the Makoto. (-:

Other KU knives worth a look would be Hinouri, but it’s 399, and the Yahiko KU. Yoshimune W1 if it ever comes back in stock. Moritaka has some fans who love to take it to a zero grind. The Ogata is another good one. Lots of reviews from Georgek’s passaround.

The Matsubara is tempting. Tried another line and they do good stuff.
Jeffry B

milkbaby
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Re: Looking for a - 240 - wide bevel - KU finish

Post by milkbaby » Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:12 pm

Hinoura shirogami gyuto is awesome

gladius
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Re: Looking for a - 240 - wide bevel - KU finish

Post by gladius » Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:44 pm

milkbaby wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:12 pm
Hinoura shirogami gyuto is awesome
----
+1

gastro gnome
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Re: Looking for a - 240 - wide bevel - KU finish

Post by gastro gnome » Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:48 am

Is wide bevel synonymous with leaving more of the core steel exposed? Or is that a square/rectangle, rectangle/square thing?

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Kit Craft
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Re: Looking for a - 240 - wide bevel - KU finish

Post by Kit Craft » Thu Feb 22, 2018 9:48 am

gastro gnome wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 7:48 am
Is wide bevel synonymous with leaving more of the core steel exposed? Or is that a square/rectangle, rectangle/square thing?
I think not everyone uses the term the same. Some of the knives that people mention are not what I would call a wide bevel. Just because something has a KU finish does not mean it has a defined shinogi for lack of a better term. To me a wide bevel has a two stage grind that reminds me of a single bevel knife in that you can raise and lower the shinogi with pressure in one spot or sharpen the edge with pressure in another. Or you could do a hamaguri edge. But it is like this on both sides of the knife rather than one. That does not mean that this is the only thing that is a wide bevel, I guess, just what I go by.

Some knives look like this but do not act like this on the stones. That does not mean that you can not polish out the blade road on the stones or give it a kasumi finish but it does mean that it will be more tricky, imo. Because with some knives you are going to have an area where the geometric shinogi does not match the cosmetic shinogi. In this case you can adjust the grind yourself, which is a shit ton of work, or you can use finger stones or stone powder.

Having said that, I own more than a few non true wide bevels that I treat as wide bevels and like them just fine. :)

Lepus
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Re: Looking for a - 240 - wide bevel - KU finish

Post by Lepus » Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:59 am

I don't know that any of the knives mentioned are true wide bevels; maybe the Hinoura? I took it in the aesthetic sense.

Bensbites
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Re: Looking for a - 240 - wide bevel - KU finish

Post by Bensbites » Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:59 am

Lepus wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:59 am
I don't know that any of the knives mentioned are true wide bevels; maybe the Hinoura? I took it in the aesthetic sense.
Clearly I am getting an education here.

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jbart65
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Re: Looking for a - 240 - wide bevel - KU finish

Post by jbart65 » Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:23 pm

The ones I listed were mainly due the KU finish. Not sure any except the Matsubara are wide bevel.

Yes, Ben. You are getting an education. We all are when Rob and Kit hold court. Love these sort of posts.
Last edited by jbart65 on Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jeffry B

AlbuquerqueDan
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Re: Looking for a - 240 - wide bevel - KU finish

Post by AlbuquerqueDan » Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:31 pm

Bensbites wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:59 am
Lepus wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:59 am
I don't know that any of the knives mentioned are true wide bevels; maybe the Hinoura? I took it in the aesthetic sense.
Clearly I am getting an education here.
I'm in the middle of turning my Kanehiro petty, which looks like a wide-bevel knife, into a zero grind, just to see if I will like it.

I spent at least 45 minutes last night thinning the blade road on my 230 grit DMT plate, and still did not hit the edge on either side (even applying most of my finger pressure toward the edge).

Maybe this is an example of a knife that looks like a wide bevel, but indeed just has the aestetics of a wide bevel?

And the learning curve continues...

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Kit Craft
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Re: Looking for a - 240 - wide bevel - KU finish

Post by Kit Craft » Thu Feb 22, 2018 4:47 pm

AlbuquerqueDan wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 3:31 pm
Bensbites wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:59 am
Lepus wrote:
Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:59 am
I don't know that any of the knives mentioned are true wide bevels; maybe the Hinoura? I took it in the aesthetic sense.
Clearly I am getting an education here.
I'm in the middle of turning my Kanehiro petty, which looks like a wide-bevel knife, into a zero grind, just to see if I will like it.

I spent at least 45 minutes last night thinning the blade road on my 230 grit DMT plate, and still did not hit the edge on either side (even applying most of my finger pressure toward the edge).

Maybe this is an example of a knife that looks like a wide bevel, but indeed just has the aestetics of a wide bevel?

And the learning curve continues...
Not familiar with that knife but familiar with the maker and I think you have a lot more grinding to do... :lol:

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