Please help me choose AS Gyuto

[islander777]

Hi, I'm hoping to get some advice here

1)Pro or home cook?

advanced home

2)What kind of knife do you want? (Gyuto, Santuko, Petty, Paring, Sujihiki, etc.)

Wa Gyuto

3) What size knife do you want?

~240mm

4)How much do you want to spend?

No budget. Happy to pay as much as required

5) Do you prefer all stainless, stainless clad over reactive carbon, or all reactive carbon construction?

Previously all my knives were stainless only. Want to try Aogami Super this time

6)Do you prefer Western or Japanese handle?

Japanese

7)What are your main knife/knives now?

inexpensive Hattori Santoku HD served me well during last decade. Also a couple of high quality german knives for heavy duty meat/bones work.

8)Are your knife skills excellent, good, fair?

good (8/10)

9)What cutting techniques do you prefer? Are you a rocker, chopper or push/pull cutter?

Mostly chopper/rocker

10)Do you know how to sharpen?

yes, enjoy doing it


I was browsing through the website and these are the knives that I shortlisted based on stock availability and customer reviews:
- Kanehiro AS Gyuto 240mm https://www.chefknivestogo.com/ka24wa.html
- Kohetsu Aogami Super Gyuto 240mm https://www.chefknivestogo.com/ka24wa.html (least preferred option, because I like the look of others more)
- Moritaka AS Gyuto 240mm https://www.chefknivestogo.com/moritaka8.html
- Masakage Koishi Gyuto 240mm https://www.chefknivestogo.com/makogy24.html

I suspect that they probably all are good and I'll be happy with any, however I'd still prefer to buy the best quality possible with the best geometry, fit/finish etc.
Which one would you choose and why, also maybe there is something better that I've missed (don't care about the price)? Must be an item in stock though, as I'm planning to buy asap.

Thanks!

[jbart65]

Kanehiro or Koishi. The Kohetsu is geared more toward pros, Moritaka is iron clad.

Kanehiro is top notch in every way. You'd never really need another knife (though you will want more). Versatile profile, great looks, excellent steel, fine fit and finish.

The Koishi is thinner and has a thinner tip. definitely more of a high flyer, but you'd need to take a little more care. A screamer of a knife and a helluva looker. The kurouchi does cause some stickage at first, but it goes away.

If the Kurosakis come back in stock, both would be in the mix.

[Bensbites]

I loved the Koishi when I borrowed one. I have no experience with other knives on the list.

[enjay]

You'd never really need another knife (though you will want more).

Say no more.

[slobound]

I have the Kanehiro in Ginsan and the Koishi. If I had to choose between the 2, I’d have to pick the Koishi. It’s a great performer as long as you take a little extra care since it is thin behind the edge.

[Jeff B]

I think AS steel is overrated and overly touted. Not that it's a bad steel but I don't find it any better than Shirogami #2 and Aogami #1-2 in most ways. The more I use AS the more I appreciate and like the other steels. I've moved more to getting knives with certain geometries than steels and what has become very noticeable is that most of the highest regarded smiths and knives use something other than AS. Might there be a reason for this?
This is just a personal observation/opinion.

Lots of very good knives out there that you can obviously afford if you don't get to hung up on steel flavor.

[CacahuateSommelier]

I think AS steel is overrated and overly touted. Not that it's a bad steel but I don't find it any better than Shirogami #2 and Aogami #1-2 in most ways. The more I use AS the more I appreciate and like the other steels. I've moved more to getting knives with certain geometries than steels and what has become very noticeable is that most of the highest regarded smiths and knives use something other than AS. Might there be a reason for this?
This is just a personal observation/opinion.

Lots of very good knives out there that you can obviously afford if you don't get to hung up on steel flavor.

Interesting thing to ponder ... good food for thought

[jbart65]

I think AS steel is overrated and overly touted. Not that it's a bad steel but I don't find it any better than Shirogami #2 and Aogami #1-2 in most ways. The more I use AS the more I appreciate and like the other steels. I've moved more to getting knives with certain geometries than steels and what has become very noticeable is that most of the highest regarded smiths and knives use something other than AS. Might there be a reason for this?
This is just a personal observation/opinion.

Lots of very good knives out there that you can obviously afford if you don't get to hung up on steel flavor.

Agree with Jeff. Profile is more important. I'd consider AS a bit more if I were a pro for edge retention, but I like B#2 better. Tougher steel that gets as sharp as any AS I've tried and good edge retention too. Profile is the first thing that determines my choice of knife. As, white, blue, ginsan - all good.

[MisoSatisfried]

Kanehiro or Koishi. The Kohetsu is geared more toward pros, Moritaka is iron clad.

Kanehiro is top notch in every way. You'd never really need another knife (though you will want more). Versatile profile, great looks, excellent steel, fine fit and finish.

The Koishi is thinner and has a thinner tip. definitely more of a high flyer, but you'd need to take a little more care. A screamer of a knife and a helluva looker. The kurouchi does cause some stickage at first, but it goes away.

If the Kurosakis come back in stock, both would be in the mix.

I agree with everything Jeffry has said here. Although, for you I may go with the Koishi as it would offset nicely from the Germans you have to handle anything that may risk the thinner Koishi. Unless, as a pro, you'd rather have a more durable knife consistently.

They're both fantastic though, as is the Kuro AS, I think you'll love any of them. I think AS is a great carbon for a pro if all else is equal, although profile/grind trump all obviously.

Let us know what you end up with and how you like it.

[Nmiller21k]

I consider AS for almost every purchase.

But... a week of a knife a work is like a month for a home user, sometimes two.

I love the Kanehiro here. It's just superb over the others listed.
I've tried all of them on your list and the Kanehiro is the one that stuck around.

[enjay]

How does AS compare to Ginsan? I'm wondering because the pricing between the two steels in the Kanehiro line is kinda interesting: for some knives AS costs more, while for others it's the Ginsan.

[Cutuu]

How does AS compare to Ginsan? I'm wondering because the pricing between the two steels in the Kanehiro line is kinda interesting: for some knives AS costs more, while for others it's the Ginsan.

These are extremely different. Ginsan is prized for it being stainless but sharpening quite well similiar to carbon. But out of the three ginsan knives I've used none of them are amazing at edge retention, except my takayuki ginsan is pretty good actually but it's no moritaka. AS can have really great edge retention. I felt my koishi seemed to have similar edge retention to my moritakas. Other AS knives might not necessarily be as great at edge retention. It depends on the maker/ht. The kanehiro as would be a great choice. I believe the kioshi will have better edge retention if it's like the one I had.

I would agree with Jeff to a certain degree about not necessarily getting to zoned in on buying a knife just upon steel alone. There are the other factors to consider. But in your case for a pro environment I would definitely keep edge retention in mind and, perhaps even at the top of the list and hold it as a valuable characteristic in chooising. But just because it's AS doesn't mean it will necessarily beat other knives/even other carbons just because it's AS.

[islander777]

Thanks everyone for your input! I'm going to buy a dedicated knife for fish in near future and that's when I'm planning to look at white/blue steels options deeper.

While I was trying to make final decision between Kanehiro or Koishi, it seems that the last Koishi has been sold and not in stock any longer...

Therefore I'm about to put a trigger on Kanehiro, but just noticed another knife I like and want people's opinion about

-Takeda Classic Gyuto 210mm or 240mm
https://www.chefknivestogo.com/tagyas21.html
https://www.chefknivestogo.com/tagyas24.html

It looks much wider than all other Gyutos I've seen, not sure if it's comfortable to work with but the reviews are raving...
I just love that rustic look of the knife and can't help myself, I know that one shouldn't be guided by the look when choosing a knife, that's why I'm asking for your help!

Thanks again!

[Radar53]

Hi There islander & welcome to the forum. I have the Takeda 210 Classic, which I love, but rather than repeat stuff this knife has been in a recent thread you can find here < viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6556&p=53458&hilit=takeda#p53458 >

Good luck with your choice

[cedarhouse]

I'm going to be a ditto bird here. I agree with everything that's been said.

Of the knives listed, the Kanehiro and Koishi get the nod. Since the Koishi is OOS, jump on the Kanehiro and never look back.

AS is an exceptional steel but unless you are doing very high volume, steel flavor can be easy to overstate.

Ginsan is easier to sharpen and gets sharper than any other stainless steel I've used. However, it's edge retention is pretty middle of the pack. As a home cook, I love this option.

Price differences between steels likely reflect demand and the smith's preferred steel. Some guys have one steel tuned in and that can both make it cheaper, because it is easier to turn out, or more expensive, because it is just that damn good.

The Takedas are amazing knives. Takeda's AS is probably the best AS I've used. However, the Takedas are pretty polarizing. The grinds are unique. They do some things very well and struggle a bit with others. In my experience, the Takeda is not quite the all-rounder the Kanehiro is. The profile is also abnormal. While there is nothing intrinsically wrong with it, the exceptional height and pronounced sheep's foot tip are not for everyone.

[Jeff B]

There seems to be a love-hate thing with Takeda, most people fall solidly on one side or the other. If you do go that route and fall on the hate side it is a popular enough knife that you can resell it and recoup most of your cost.
And I agree with Ryan here, I'd jump on the Kanehiro while it's in stock and run with it.

[islander777]

Thanks everyone! Don't want to take chances, at least not this time
Kanehiro it is then!

[Cutuu]

Looking back, If the kanehiro AS was one of my first jks I would have made an amazingly wise choice and been happy with it to this day. Wise choice imo islander.

[Jeff B]

You won't be disappointed it is a great knife and a great looker too.

[cedarhouse]

Drop in and let us know how you like it.