Should i get another knife?

[skypickle]

This is the question that haunts me. I currently use a shun gyuto stainless (vg-max steel?). I went to this after years of using a henckels classic pro. Both are 8” knives and I’ve gotten used to the short push cut. I am not so good at sharpening (I had a chef’s choice and could never get it to do the right thing. I settled for honing with a steel and a service when the blade needed a tune up) Here are my answers to the questionaire

1)home cook

2)Gyuto

3) 240mm

4)<$500

5) all stainless or, stainless clad over reactive carbon

6) Japanese handle

8)knife skills are ok as long as i am paying attention

9)I am a rocker or push/pull cutter

10)i sharpen my chisels on a work sharp. I hate doing my knives on it so i’ll get some stones

The kurosaki as laser from this site was interesting but out of stock.
So I found A yu-kurosaki-sg2-hammered-shizuku-wa-rs8p-chef-knife-gyuto-240mm-with-white-ring-octagonal-handle

Why? Well I liked going to vg max from that German steel. So i am thinking i might like an even harder steel with good edge retention. I cant deal with carbon - i had a carbon ‘hunting knife’ and used it as a steak knife. The taste of rust got to be annoying. I know the carbon knives can be made super sharp so i’d be willing to try a stainless clad carbon. Some of you here have praised the gengetsu And it comes as 240mm-stainless-clad-white-2-wa-gyuto

This Kurosaki also an interesting appearance. I know that sounds ridiculous but I found the shun’s Damascus pattern helped me pay more attention to the blade. The shun has a lot of heft - it smashes garlic with aplomb. The henkels could not do that. But the shun’s heaviness is also annoying because it has to move more slowly. I don’t know what a ‘laser’ feels like but sounds like fun.


So really, I could live without buying another knife.

Or maybe not. I’d always be wondering what life would be like with a different blade. Any other suggestions?

[Ourorboros]

Are you asking if you should get another knife or the Kurosaki specifically? Because you are on a forum where some guys have a dozen knives in their regular rotation plus more.

Well if you push cut, I'd say that you'll have more joy in a knife that isn't the Shun profile. Anything with a flat section by the heel should be better for you and it looks like the Kurosaki has that.

A laser will feel light and nimble for its length.

I think trying knives of different profiles and grinds can be a good learning experience, letting you find what fits your mechanics.

[skypickle]

Yes i am specifically asking about the kurosaki. You hit the nail on the head. Push cutting w the Shun requires i add a rocking motion. So a simpler motion with a stable arm would make me feel safer. In terms of. A longer flat heel, i also thought about a nigiri. Since i am doing a lot more time w vegetables than meat and sometimes chop and mince as well, that would seem another style I should explore. The idea of effortless cutting w a laser is intriguing. Do nakiris come as ‘lasers’? Recommendation?

[raleighcook15]

You should always buy more knives

If You're looking for a laser with a large flat spot a shibata guyto may be your pick. Its stainless, keeps an edge for a long time, and has good flat spots.

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/shkor2gy24.html

[Jeff B]

Iron cladding is usually where rust is an issue. Mono steel carbon and stainless clad carbon knives are easily maintained. As long as you wash and dry it after your done using it you'll never have a rust problem. You really have to abuse one to get it to rust.

[dAviD]

You should always buy more knives

If You're looking for a laser with a large flat spot a shibata guyto may be your pick. Its stainless, keeps an edge for a long time, and has good flat spots.

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/shkor2gy24.html

Yeah his R2 holds a hell of an edge.
Great price for the amount of knife you get and it's pretty much perfect in fit and finish for that style.

[Jeff B]

You should always buy more knives

If You're looking for a laser with a large flat spot a shibata guyto may be your pick. Its stainless, keeps an edge for a long time, and has good flat spots.

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/shkor2gy24.html

"9)I am a rocker or push/pull cutter"

The Shibata is a great knife but K tips don't make for decent rockers.

[Ourorboros]

A nakiri is a great way to go for veg, that's what it's made for. There are laser nakiris, though I don't know which are which. Generally something that is light for it's height will be.

The options I see are -
Nakiri - advantage of being a specialist. The shorter blade is more nimble and handy. You may need a petty or paring knife if you want a tip for some task.
240mm Gyuto made for push cutter/chopper - gives you more versatility. The long length allows a large flat area for push cutting while allowing you to slice, rock chop, and have a tip. You do need space to work with this.
Chinese Vegetable Cleaver (Chuka-Bocho) - the big brother to the nakiri. It has greater mass, which is useful for some things. Surprisingly versatile, if you learn the right mechanics. It is its own animal.

Of course with a $500 budget you can buy a quality version of all three.
You may also consider the santoku, bano bunka, or kiritsuke.

[salemj]

I'll add a vote to consider the Shibata, but I'd look at his AS, NOT his R2 line; I'd also consider the AS gyuto by Makoto, Y. Kurosaki's brother who no doubt has played a part in his knives from time to time, and particularly in his brother's AS laser line. I feel pretty strongly that, if you want something that really feels different and holds a different edge than the Shun, you should not move to R2. To me, this is more of a lateral move with the exception that the R2 holds an edge an longer and is a little harder, but it will not feel like carbon at all, and it really requires good sharpening skills to reap the benefits of this PM steel, whereas a good carbon is really one of the easiest things to sharpen and maintain. I don't say it much on this forum, but to be completely honest, R2 reminds me a tremendous amount of VG-10 or VG-Max with an ideal heat-treatment.

I don't mean to condescend, but what you describe regarding your technique sounds A LOT like your knives are not as sharp as they should be. This is reinforced by the fact that you don't seem confident as a sharpener. Either of the above knives are below budget and would leave enough for a basic sharpening set-up, and your two current knives are excellent ones for practice sharpening. Well-treated AS in either of the above will have miraculous retention—I find that AS as a home cook holds an edge for a shockingly long time, and it also strops or steels better than many other knives, too. You could literally learn to sharpen in the time it takes the factory AS edge to go dull if you keep the other knives in rotation a bit.

I also think these other knives are quite different from what you have in ways that will fit with your current technique, but also push you toward more efficient use of your knives and a broader variety of techniques. They will also offer a different sense of balance in the hand that, while perhaps a little weird at first, will also increase you sense of control and precision over time. I feel this is much more strongly the case for these knives than for the Kurosaki Shizuku.

[lsboogy]

I'd add in looking at the Kikuichi Swedish blades - I have a good set of them and they are thinner than almost any knives on the market, and are Damascus as well - Can never say anything wrong about them, and I keep going back to using them even with the large number of other knives I have.

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/kiswwadagy24.html

[jacko9]

Should you get another knife - yes! I bought several Japanese knives after years of using my German knives. I also have many stones since as a woodworker of many years I started sharpening my Japanese chisels with water stones almost 40 years ago (got started by the good folks at Japan Woodworker when it was a retail store in Alameda, Ca)

I would look at the Shapton Pro stones in the 320, 1000, and 5000 range to use on your knives and chisels. I have stones up to 8000 grit but don't use them on my knives.

[Drewski]

I'd add in looking at the Kikuichi Swedish blades - I have a good set of them and they are thinner than almost any knives on the market, and are Damascus as well - Can never say anything wrong about them, and I keep going back to using them even with the large number of other knives I have.

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/kiswwadagy24.html

Agreed! I have the nakiri from this line and it's a ton of fun, even though it's a bit short. Really thin, look great.

[skypickle]

Thank you all for your suggestions. Of course the artisan crafting the knife plays a great role - but I am also perplexed by a more objective parameter, the steel used. As a typical neophyte, I am drawn to stain-less. Still I discovered an interesting steel comparison website.
http://www.zknives.com/knives/steels/steelchart.php
This fellow does this for a hobby and in fact has many interesting reviews as well.
He offers interesting discourse on different types of steels used including the Super Aogami and Swedish steel you all mentioned above. At first I was impressed with the powdered metallurgy steels (zdp189, etc) but apparently these are difficult to sharpen. I imagine they are also prone to chipping. Not that i am going to use them roughly,but it always is possible for a knife to slip out of the hand and hit the granite counter by accident. An interesting variety I learned about at znives is gin san.
"Ginsanko, Gin3, Silver 3: Ginsanko is a stainless steel made by Hitachi and is an excellent stainless steel for forging. A fine grained high carbon content (1% + carbon) stainless steel with the cutting feel and ease of sharpening of a carbon steel. In the hands of a skilled smith ginsanko will be very similar to white steel’s edge formation and sharpenability." This sounds like a good substrate that a knovice knife sharpener could use. CKTG offers gin san knives from several artisans
https://www.chefknivestogo.com/ginsankosteel.html
but all these knives are hefty - with a blade thickness at the heel of 3mm or greater. Not what I'd call a laser.

salemj made an interesting comment that the shibata R2 does not 'feel like a carbon at all'. Is there a concensus about how carbon should 'feel' as compared to stainless? In a recent film, Hannibal LEcter was at a knife show and was discussing the taste differences between stainless and carbon knives . But there was no mention of how the knife feels.

Obviously I should get a carbon knife and some stones to sharpen my sharpening skills. I am of the school that believes in buying a good thing once, rather than an inferior less expensiive item with an eye to upgrading later. With this in mind I am going with 3 shapton glass stones. 220, 1000, 4000. The 220 is needed because I have several knives that have never seen a stone and they show it. From my reading it seems the 1000 will be the workhorse with the 4000 a polishing step. I should probably get a pure mono steel carbon knife as well to practice on - I remember someone suggesting a petty that was not too expensive. Still I want to get a knife that will let me prepare the vegetables I use. A nakiri of course is the style most people recommend but the blunt end is suboptimal for cutting out rotten spots, or the core of the tomato, etc. A bunka or a santoku might work but I am just as comfortable using a gyuto as most of the time I slice with push pull.

[Ourorboros]

Actually with hand made knives, thickness of spine at the heel can be deceiving, With sites that show it, I'd look at thickness of spine midway through. If not, I'd look at weight - for a nakiri <5 ounces is going to be a laser, IIRC.
Don't forget to get a flattening plate for your stones.
A Daovua should be easy to sharpen, being made from leaf springs. The nakiri has a curved edge though. Point is, there are some <$100 knives that are easy to sharpen with that are actually decent knives.