Gyuto used for breaking down fish also

[zeus241129]

Hi Guys ....

Please kind give your opinions on Gyuto Western with steel similar or better than blue #2 that able to be used to cut veggies and breaking down fish also ( salmon, sea bream ).
Been watching Kohetsu HAP 40 but still need to be sure that this type thick enough.

Thank you so much guys ...
Regards,
Zeus

[Drewski]

I don't have a lot of experience breaking down fish with a gyuto, but you might want to consider a more robust knife for this. I know a deba is the traditional fish knife, but a honesuki might also meet your needs. I love mine for chicken, and then I don't have to worry about chipping my gyuto.

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/kanehide.html

I'm sure others with more experience will have better advice.

[athel]

Maybe some more experienced members will have better advice, but it seems like you're looking for relatively mutually exclusive things: a knife that's tough enough to go through fish bones won't really be thin enough for cleanly cutting veggies and such. Most carbon steel gyutos (like those in blue #2) are quite hard and quite thin, for me personally, I wouldn't want to put them through fish bone as they'd likely chip.

That being said, you could take a look at things like western debas, but those are really quite thick behind the edge, I don't think they'd suit most veggies well at all.

If you're not planning to go through fish bones, you might look at a sujihiki for both filleting/slicing fish and cutting vegetables, but I don't really have a lot of experience there so I defer to others.

[raleighcook15]

I dont find a thicker blade to be more useful when breaking down salmon. I confidently use my kanehide tk. I wouldnt be nervous with hap 40 gyuto though. Salmon bones arnt terribly thick and as long as you properly ride the bone it shouldn't be an issue.

Obviously this is referring to filleting it and not cutting steaks through the backbone.

[Drewski]

I dont find a thicker blade to be more useful when breaking down salmon. I confidently use my kanehide tk. I wouldnt be nervous with hap 40 gyuto though. Salmon bones arnt terribly thick and as long as you properly ride the bone it shouldn't be an issue.

Obviously this is referring to filleting it and not cutting steaks through the backbone.

Would a deba be used for the backbone? Or a beater cleaver?

[raleighcook15]

I dont find a thicker blade to be more useful when breaking down salmon. I confidently use my kanehide tk. I wouldnt be nervous with hap 40 gyuto though. Salmon bones arnt terribly thick and as long as you properly ride the bone it shouldn't be an issue.

Obviously this is referring to filleting it and not cutting steaks through the backbone.

Would a deba be used for the backbone? Or a beater cleaver?

Cleaver would be the best I imagine.

[Dan_Crubenew]

I'm not scared of most small to medium boned fish with a "normal" general use gyuto such as TKC, Akifusa SRS-15, etc. I wouldn't probably go near a Mahi or something like that though. As for Deba or Cleaver? Whatever, pick your poison if all you want to do is chop heads (fish heads) or something.

I would use something else, like a Deba for fish steaks, mostly because I can more than any real worry. I can see if you are really hacking away at it with a gyuto how it could go wrong though.

I usually keep a "beater" knife around for rough and tumble stuff when things get a little too frantic ITK or around less competent people. I use beater a little loosely as the knife isn't really junk, but should the worst happen, better it happens to it than my more "dear" knives. The knife that is most in this slot for me is a Kikuichi TKC (Kanehide TK as they are known here now) It is one of the most popular knives in the world for low bling/high performance. If you want something to bang around on fish and chop veg or basically just be a do-it-all knife, I would say the Kanehide TK is a good and inexpensive place to start.

[salemj]

I'm not scared of most small to medium boned fish with a "normal" general use gyuto such as TKC, Akifusa SRS-15, etc. I wouldn't probably go near a Mahi or something like that though. As for Deba or Cleaver? Whatever, pick your poison if all you want to do is chop heads (fish heads) or something.

I would use something else, like a Deba for fish steaks, mostly because I can more than any real worry. I can see if you are really hacking away at it with a gyuto how it could go wrong though.

I usually keep a "beater" knife around for rough and tumble stuff when things get a little too frantic ITK or around less competent people. I use beater a little loosely as the knife isn't really junk, but should the worst happen, better it happens to it than my more "dear" knives. The knife that is most in this slot for me is a Kikuichi TKC (Kanehide TK as they are known here now) It is one of the most popular knives in the world for low bling/high performance. If you want something to bang around on fish and chop veg or basically just be a do-it-all knife, I would say the Kanehide TK is a good and inexpensive place to start.

I think this post gets at the core issue. It isn't so much the type of knife as the type of steel/edge unless you are cutting through thick bone. The problem is, the OP suggests blue steel or high HRC PM, neither of which is really ideal for lower HRC treatments which are more forgiving. I think there is a big difference between how accident prone a thin 62+ edge is versus an ever-so-slightly thicker 69-61 HRC one. Honestly, knives that are closer to 59-60 with stainless or semi-stainless steels (like the Fujiwara, or the cheaper Misono and Masamoto, or even the TK and the HDs) are shocking tough and still take really great edges that are considered a major step above German steel. They also happen to usually come with Western handles. I think these knives make really amazing "beaters" that are still better than most people's knives and can still serve as 'beaters" even with someone acute or asymmetric bevels. I do not the feel the same way at all about clad gyutos with high-carbon steel, especially blue steels since they tend to have high heat treatments when done by Japanese smiths (Mark's site always lists conservative HRCs, but if you look at other sites, many blue steels start at 62 and go up from there, with many hovering closer to 63-4).

[raleighcook15]

I'm not scared of most small to medium boned fish with a "normal" general use gyuto such as TKC, Akifusa SRS-15, etc. I wouldn't probably go near a Mahi or something like that though. As for Deba or Cleaver? Whatever, pick your poison if all you want to do is chop heads (fish heads) or something.

I would use something else, like a Deba for fish steaks, mostly because I can more than any real worry. I can see if you are really hacking away at it with a gyuto how it could go wrong though.

I usually keep a "beater" knife around for rough and tumble stuff when things get a little too frantic ITK or around less competent people. I use beater a little loosely as the knife isn't really junk, but should the worst happen, better it happens to it than my more "dear" knives. The knife that is most in this slot for me is a Kikuichi TKC (Kanehide TK as they are known here now) It is one of the most popular knives in the world for low bling/high performance. If you want something to bang around on fish and chop veg or basically just be a do-it-all knife, I would say the Kanehide TK is a good and inexpensive place to start.

I think this post gets at the core issue. It isn't so much the type of knife as the type of steel/edge unless you are cutting through thick bone. The problem is, the OP suggests blue steel or high HRC PM, neither of which is really ideal for lower HRC treatments which are more forgiving. I think there is a big difference between how accident prone a thin 62+ edge is versus an ever-so-slightly thicker 69-61 HRC one. Honestly, knives that are closer to 59-60 with stainless or semi-stainless steels (like the Fujiwara, or the cheaper Misono and Masamoto, or even the TK and the HDs) are shocking tough and still take really great edges that are considered a major step above German steel. They also happen to usually come with Western handles. I think these knives make really amazing "beaters" that are still better than most people's knives and can still serve as 'beaters" even with someone acute or asymmetric bevels. I do not the feel the same way at all about clad gyutos with high-carbon steel, especially blue steels since they tend to have high heat treatments when done by Japanese smiths (Mark's site always lists conservative HRCs, but if you look at other sites, many blue steels start at 62 and go up from there, with many hovering closer to 63-4).

Agreed it comes down to the hardness and toughness of the steel more than the thinness. My kanehide tk and konosuke gs have filleted coubtless salmon at this point, not a single chip and a couple swipes on a ceramic rod bring their sharpness right back.

[Dan_Crubenew]

I'm not scared of most small to medium boned fish with a "normal" general use gyuto such as TKC, Akifusa SRS-15, etc. I wouldn't probably go near a Mahi or something like that though. As for Deba or Cleaver? Whatever, pick your poison if all you want to do is chop heads (fish heads) or something.

I would use something else, like a Deba for fish steaks, mostly because I can more than any real worry. I can see if you are really hacking away at it with a gyuto how it could go wrong though.

I usually keep a "beater" knife around for rough and tumble stuff when things get a little too frantic ITK or around less competent people. I use beater a little loosely as the knife isn't really junk, but should the worst happen, better it happens to it than my more "dear" knives. The knife that is most in this slot for me is a Kikuichi TKC (Kanehide TK as they are known here now) It is one of the most popular knives in the world for low bling/high performance. If you want something to bang around on fish and chop veg or basically just be a do-it-all knife, I would say the Kanehide TK is a good and inexpensive place to start.

I think this post gets at the core issue. It isn't so much the type of knife as the type of steel/edge unless you are cutting through thick bone. The problem is, the OP suggests blue steel or high HRC PM, neither of which is really ideal for lower HRC treatments which are more forgiving. I think there is a big difference between how accident prone a thin 62+ edge is versus an ever-so-slightly thicker 69-61 HRC one. Honestly, knives that are closer to 59-60 with stainless or semi-stainless steels (like the Fujiwara, or the cheaper Misono and Masamoto, or even the TK and the HDs) are shocking tough and still take really great edges that are considered a major step above German steel. They also happen to usually come with Western handles. I think these knives make really amazing "beaters" that are still better than most people's knives and can still serve as 'beaters" even with someone acute or asymmetric bevels. I do not the feel the same way at all about clad gyutos with high-carbon steel, especially blue steels since they tend to have high heat treatments when done by Japanese smiths (Mark's site always lists conservative HRCs, but if you look at other sites, many blue steels start at 62 and go up from there, with many hovering closer to 63-4).

This is well put, I agree with you on these points as well. I didn't really follow through on my emphasis to know what your personal knife's capabilities may or may not be. What may be required here may indeed be more than a one knife set up.

[cwillett]

I would probably go with a two pronged approach. I use a 150mm petty for delicate work like filleting, skinning, and portioning. I use an older Wustof 8" for removing the head, fins, tail, etc. I'd use it to cut steaks as well, but I prefer to fillet. I don't think the steel is particularly important with this approach as long as you use softer steel for the bigger knife and make sure everything is sharp.

[blwchef]

I use a Fujiwara FKM 300mm gyuto for large salmon, black cod, and wild yellowtail. No issues chipping. Taken off plenty of heads. For something like the sea bream you just need to cut between the bones of the spine. It can handle veggies just fine too. For beefier boned fish I use one of my debas or a 240mm western deba.

[lsboogy]

I've been doing trout and salmon for years with slim gyutos and don't think I've had problems with it. I do use a big ol Kikuichi deba at times, but the thing weighs about a pound so I would not use it if I had to cut up a bunch of fish. And like blwchef says, just look and put the blade between a couple bones and give it a whack. My kohetsu HAP40 knife butchered lots of salmon before I got my Chris thinned knife back. And I use it on all fish (AEBL stainless). I think you just have to feel what you're cutting