First Japanese Knife

[tizianca]

Home cook, but kind of hardcore, i cook more than 5 times a week.

Bunka and a Yanagi

170mm + for the bunka, 200mm+ for the Yanagi

Under 200 dollars for each one.

Stainless clad

Japanese

A Shun Wasabi Santoku 170mm

I'd say fair to good.

I'm a rocker, but looking to learn the chopping art.

I've had some experience, but i'd love to learn.

Hello Everyone,
I'm new to this forum and to the world of carbon steel, so i'm looking for your advice to buy a couple of knives.
The main reasons i want to buy japanese knives are the following:

- I really like to learn and work with my hands so i'm looking for a pair of knives that will help me learn the sharpening tecnique.
- I like the performance of my Shun, but i'd like to step it up.
- I like the looks of the handcrafted knives over industrial, and would like to have knives that "patina", that has a story to tell.

I'm looking for a bunka because i like the tooks of them, and i figured they're between a Gyutou and a Nakiri, but more on the nakiri side, so i can learn how to chop, but still have an utility knife.
I think about the yanagi because with that i'd be able (maybe) to learn how to sharpen a single edged knife, and still would have a slicer that is something that i'm missing.

I've looked through the site many times, but there are so many steels and brands out there that i can't make up my mind.
Especially the steel, White? Blue? i don't know.
That's why i'm asking for your help to find my knives.
For the stones i was thinking about the chosera 7pc set, but i'm open to suggestions on other, maybe cheaper alternatives, that work well with my steel choice.
I'm looking to make one big order, as i live in Switzerland, so i can cut down on shipping fees, but that's why i have so many questions at the same time.

Thank You in advance for your time.

Tiziano

[ashy2classy]

Can't speak to the Yanagi, but I love Anryu's hammered blue #2 as a first J knife.

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/anbl2bu17.html

[athel]

Personally, I've found the tips on gyutos more useful than the k-tips on bunkas, the latter of which are also more fragile. And a gyuto with a flat profile will chop and push cut well. Others may have more to say on this, but I think you'll find a 210-240mm gyuto to be substantially more versatile than a bunka, santoku, or nakiri

However, bunkas do look awesome (I know that's a big part of why I tried one), and that's a valid criterion to use when picking a knife! Just thought I'd put the above out there.

[Jeff B]

Can't argue with the Anryu hammered...

[LostHighway]

Personally, I've found the tips on gyutos more useful than the k-tips on bunkas, the latter of which are also more fragile. And a gyuto with a flat profile will chop and push cut well. Others may have more to say on this, but I think you'll find a 210-240mm gyuto to be substantially more versatile than a bunka, santoku, or nakiri

However, bunkas do look awesome (I know that's a big part of why I tried one), and that's a valid criterion to use when picking a knife! Just thought I'd put the above out there.

I concur with athel here. I think you would be far better off starting with a 210 or 240 mm gyuto as an addition to your Shun santoku rather than a bunka and a yangi. It is a far more versatile knife. The Yahiko W#2 Nashiji gyutos https://www.chefknivestogo.com/yawh2nagy21.html will sharpen easily, have a fairly flat profile for chopping and push cutting, and will take a seriously sharp edge without too much work. However, one caveat and this applies to all stainless clad knives, the only patina you are going to get is at the thin line of exposed core steel (Hagane) below the cladding.
If you do want stainless cladding, and there are good arguments for it, I would also encourage you to look at the the Tanaka B#2 Nashiji https://www.chefknivestogo.com/tabl2na21gy.html, the Gihei B#2 https://www.chefknivestogo.com/gibl2gy21.html, the Makoto W#2 https://www.chefknivestogo.com/makotowhite21.html (currently oos), and the Anryu B#2 Hammered https://www.chefknivestogo.com/anhagy21.html. All these offer slightly different profiles but all are solid,yet different, options. I have provided links to the 210s but you should consider 240s as well.
Edit: If you buy from Mark at CKtG I would urge you to get them to do the initial sharpening https://www.chefknivestogo.com/inshse.html prior to shipping no matter which knife you choose. Assuming you have a decent cutting board and use a modicum of care and common sense you should be able to maintain a very adequate edge with something like the Shapton Pro 2K https://www.chefknivestogo.com/shpro20.html for quite a while before you need more stones.

[Jeff B]

Personally, I've found the tips on gyutos more useful than the k-tips on bunkas, the latter of which are also more fragile. And a gyuto with a flat profile will chop and push cut well. Others may have more to say on this, but I think you'll find a 210-240mm gyuto to be substantially more versatile than a bunka, santoku, or nakiri

However, bunkas do look awesome (I know that's a big part of why I tried one), and that's a valid criterion to use when picking a knife! Just thought I'd put the above out there.

I concur with athel here. I think you would be far better off starting with a 210 or 240 mm gyuto as an addition to your Shun santoku rather than a bunka and a yangi. It is a far more versatile knife....

Totally personal preference. I have friends that prefer their K-tips.

[athel]

Personally, I've found the tips on gyutos more useful than the k-tips on bunkas, the latter of which are also more fragile. And a gyuto with a flat profile will chop and push cut well. Others may have more to say on this, but I think you'll find a 210-240mm gyuto to be substantially more versatile than a bunka, santoku, or nakiri

However, bunkas do look awesome (I know that's a big part of why I tried one), and that's a valid criterion to use when picking a knife! Just thought I'd put the above out there.

I concur with athel here. I think you would be far better off starting with a 210 or 240 mm gyuto as an addition to your Shun santoku rather than a bunka and a yangi. It is a far more versatile knife....

Totally personal preference. I have friends that prefer their K-tips.

Yeah, that's totally valid. I think there are two dimensions at play though; k-tip vs non-k-tip, and length. The OP may want to take a look at 210-240mm k-tip gyutos, and potentially get some of the versatility of a longer knife, along with their personal preference for k-tips. Of course, if the OP is only interested in shorter knives, a bunka is perfect!

[tizianca]

Hello Everyone,
Thanks for the numerous advices. I started thinking about the Gyutou and I think i’m gonna go that way. I do love the bunka looks, but it can wait.
Any suggestions for the Yangiba?
I’m also willing to get more stones, so that I can also sharpen my other knives, the chosera I heard they are the best, but they’re really expensive compared to other kits. Any suggestions on that?
Thank you for your time
Tiziano

[athel]

Hello Everyone,
Thanks for the numerous advices. I started thinking about the Gyutou and I think i’m gonna go that way. I do love the bunka looks, but it can wait.
Any suggestions for the Yangiba?
I’m also willing to get more stones, so that I can also sharpen my other knives, the chosera I heard they are the best, but they’re really expensive compared to other kits. Any suggestions on that?
Thank you for your time
Tiziano

Awesome, I don't think you'll be disappointed with a Gyuto!!

In terms of a Yanagiba, I don't have any advice, but I'm sure other members will have some good recommendations.

[dragovmaterials]

Hello Everyone,
Thanks for the numerous advices. I started thinking about the Gyutou and I think i’m gonna go that way. I do love the bunka looks, but it can wait.
Any suggestions for the Yangiba?
I’m also willing to get more stones, so that I can also sharpen my other knives, the chosera I heard they are the best, but they’re really expensive compared to other kits. Any suggestions on that?
Thank you for your time
Tiziano

You will be more than happy with Gyutou, I have tested it last month, my friend has one so I took it for a weekend. This is unbelievable knife and I'm going to buy it during the BF (hope it would be with discount, duh..)

[jobone]

Can't speak to the Yanagi, but I love Anryu's hammered blue #2 as a first J knife.

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/anbl2bu17.html

Got the 210 Anryu hammered gyuto as my first. They are really awesome and I would highly recommend one.

Personally, I liked the combo of stainless with a reactive core as a transition from all stainless and this knife also has that.

For learning Yanagi, the young samurai are nice, but probably out of stock.

[Nmiller21k]

I think of you don’t have a use for a Yagi don’t buy one.

They aren’t a universal slicer knife.

Maybe try a suji. You can pick up an inexpensive single bevel on eBay to play with for sharpening.

[tizianca]

I’m in love with the Anryu Hammered Gyuto, I think I made my choice.
I looked for the yangi and I think I might get one of those Young samurais. The 210 is in stock, while the others aren’t. Is it too short for a yangi? Or as purpose of learning and everything will do?
I mean 85$ for a knife isn’t much, I can anyway use it to cut roast and other meats.
To the stones now:
Has anyone any experience with the CKTG 6pcs https://www.chefknivestogo.com/3pcstoneset.html ?
Or with the Arashiyama set https://www.chefknivestogo.com/ar7pcesset.html ?
Any opinions on content and quality for the price?

Thank you
Tiziano

[salemj]

I’m in love with the Anryu Hammered Gyuto, I think I made my choice.
I looked for the yangi and I think I might get one of those Young samurais. The 210 is in stock, while the others aren’t. Is it too short for a yangi? Or as purpose of learning and everything will do?
I mean 85$ for a knife isn’t much, I can anyway use it to cut roast and other meats.
To the stones now:
Has anyone any experience with the CKTG 6pcs https://www.chefknivestogo.com/3pcstoneset.html ?
Or with the Arashiyama set https://www.chefknivestogo.com/ar7pcesset.html ?
Any opinions on content and quality for the price?

Thank you
Tiziano

I just saw this thread and the first thing I noticed was the stones. DON'T BUY A LARGE STONE SET. If you don't know how to sharpen (which it sounds like you don't really), less is more.

I would buy this plus a stone holder and cheap XX coarse diamond plate from Mark IF you are really committed to a big-batch purchase without experience:
https://www.chefknivestogo.com/sh2pcstset.html

This is an ideal range of stones for most home cooks, and these stones all have a solid reputation and - importantly - are very easy to use and to learn on.

I agree with Nmiller above: skip the Yanagi. You'd have a much more useful knife in a suji in the kitchen, and a much more useful sharpening practice with something cheaper with wide bevels, like a Tojiro ITK series. Otherwise, a cheap Yanagi is both not very useful and also a real pain to sharpen well. Unlike a thinner knife with tall bevels like the Tojiro santoku with a softer cladding, a Yanagiba when properly shapened as a particular clam-shell shape which is difficult to master even for good sharpeners; beyond that, it is also very hard to control an even shingi line, and beyond that, it is actually harder to sharpen a larger/longer knife than a shorter one.

For the gyuto, the Anryu will work well. I've actually compared the Kaneshige TB to the Anyru...I think the heat treatment is just as good, but I like the performance of the TB a lot, as well as its more simple looks. It is a good knife for someone who likes undersized knives (and it sounds like you do): it comes in closer to 200mm but is still tall enough at the heel, and it has a profile which works equally well as a rocker or chopper. I just posted to another person that there is one in the classifieds, but you'd be better off buying from Mark given your situation.

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/kabl2gy21cu.html

If you didn't already like the Anryu, I'd probably steer you toward something thinner and lighter. If you can get one of the cheaper Makotos, for example, you might have a lot of fun with it (I noticed someone above made this recommendation, too):

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/mawh2gy21.html

That is just one of several options that he has for under 200. I think some of the other options might be even better for you, such as his AS line.

Makoto knives, in my view, are knives that lots of people like because they resembles ones in a much more refined style and a higher price bracket, but at a discount price because he is new as an independent smith and because his works are a bit less refined in fit and finish than more expensive blades, but they supposedly have extremely refined grinds, which is what counts. I think it has a more "traditional" design than the Anryu, if it is ok to say that.

I'll stop there before I just complicate things...

[tizianca]

I’m in love with the Anryu Hammered Gyuto, I think I made my choice.
I looked for the yangi and I think I might get one of those Young samurais. The 210 is in stock, while the others aren’t. Is it too short for a yangi? Or as purpose of learning and everything will do?
I mean 85$ for a knife isn’t much, I can anyway use it to cut roast and other meats.
To the stones now:
Has anyone any experience with the CKTG 6pcs https://www.chefknivestogo.com/3pcstoneset.html ?
Or with the Arashiyama set https://www.chefknivestogo.com/ar7pcesset.html ?
Any opinions on content and quality for the price?

Thank you
Tiziano

I just saw this thread and the first thing I noticed was the stones. DON'T BUY A LARGE STONE SET. If you don't know how to sharpen (which it sounds like you don't really), less is more.

I would buy this plus a stone holder and cheap XX coarse diamond plate from Mark IF you are really committed to a big-batch purchase without experience:
https://www.chefknivestogo.com/sh2pcstset.html

This is an ideal range of stones for most home cooks, and these stones all have a solid reputation and - importantly - are very easy to use and to learn on.

I agree with Nmiller above: skip the Yanagi. You'd have a much more useful knife in a suji in the kitchen, and a much more useful sharpening practice with something cheaper with wide bevels, like a Tojiro ITK series. Otherwise, a cheap Yanagi is both not very useful and also a real pain to sharpen well. Unlike a thinner knife with tall bevels like the Tojiro santoku with a softer cladding, a Yanagiba when properly shapened as a particular clam-shell shape which is difficult to master even for good sharpeners; beyond that, it is also very hard to control an even shingi line, and beyond that, it is actually harder to sharpen a larger/longer knife than a shorter one.

For the gyuto, the Anryu will work well. I've actually compared the Kaneshige TB to the Anyru...I think the heat treatment is just as good, but I like the performance of the TB a lot, as well as its more simple looks. It is a good knife for someone who likes undersized knives (and it sounds like you do): it comes in closer to 200mm but is still tall enough at the heel, and it has a profile which works equally well as a rocker or chopper. I just posted to another person that there is one in the classifieds, but you'd be better off buying from Mark given your situation.

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/kabl2gy21cu.html

If you didn't already like the Anryu, I'd probably steer you toward something thinner and lighter. If you can get one of the cheaper Makotos, for example, you might have a lot of fun with it (I noticed someone above made this recommendation, too):

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/mawh2gy21.html

That is just one of several options that he has for under 200. I think some of the other options might be even better for you, such as his AS line.

Makoto knives, in my view, are knives that lots of people like because they resembles ones in a much more refined style and a higher price bracket, but at a discount price because he is new as an independent smith and because his works are a bit less refined in fit and finish than more expensive blades, but they supposedly have extremely refined grinds, which is what counts. I think it has a more "traditional" design than the Anryu, if it is ok to say that.

I'll stop there before I just complicate things...

Thank you for the complete response.
So, if i don't get the yangi, but instead the Anryu Bunka (145$) and the Anryu Sujihiki 270mm(249$), so that i have a slicer and a prep knife for chopping and i'm still withing my 400$ budget for 2 knives, what do you guys think of that?

For the stones, i haven't really thougt about the shaptons glass stones, but the kits i posted have basically the same grit stones inside, just contain also the holder and flattening plate,... considering that the price of the set and the price of the 3 shapton glass plus the accessories would come out at around the same price.
i thougt another option would be a combo stone, maybe you have some suggestions, to really keep the price down(Imanishi 1k/6k + accessories i'd be at around 100 bucks), what do you think of that?
thanks again and sorry for all the questions, but it's kind of a lot of money so i want to spend it right.

[athel]

Thank you for the complete response.
So, if i don't get the yangi, but instead the Anryu Bunka (145$) and the Anryu Sujihiki 270mm(249$), so that i have a slicer and a prep knife for chopping and i'm still withing my 400$ budget for 2 knives, what do you guys think of that?

Personally, I'd rather spend the bulk of my money on the gyuto/bunka rather than the sujihiki, as you'll probably use the former a lot more. To be sure, some people use sujihikis as multipurpose knives, but if you're just planning to slice with it, my vote is to invest in a 240mm gyuto instead. In addition to being great with veggie prep, gyutos are more than capable of slicing. Just my two cents though.

[tizianca]

Thank you for the complete response.
So, if i don't get the yangi, but instead the Anryu Bunka (145$) and the Anryu Sujihiki 270mm(249$), so that i have a slicer and a prep knife for chopping and i'm still withing my 400$ budget for 2 knives, what do you guys think of that?

Personally, I'd rather spend the bulk of my money on the gyuto/bunka rather than the sujihiki, as you'll probably use the former a lot more. To be sure, some people use sujihikis as multipurpose knives, but if you're just planning to slice with it, my vote is to invest in a 240mm gyuto instead. In addition to being great with veggie prep, gyutos are more than capable of slicing. Just my two cents though.

It does make sense... i just got cought up wanting more.
What about the Anryu As Gyuto 240mm? https://www.chefknivestogo.com/anasgy24.html
Because the Anryu blue #2 is out of stock.
it has the same hammered looks but the black finish. is AS a lot different than #2 in terms of performances and sharpening?
thank you

[athel]

For instance, if you like Anryu-san and/or the hammered look on some of his knives, you could get the 210mm Masakage Koishi gyuto (forged by Yoshimi Kato, who works in the same workshop as Anryu) and the Masakage Mizu 270mm sujihiki (forged by Anryu) from Knifewear for just over $400 USD (their prices are cheaper than here because of exchange rates as far as I can tell). This way you'd put a bit more into the gyuto, which you're probably more likely to use frequently. Just a suggestion though!

Links below:

https://knifewear.com/products/masakage ... hiki-270mm

https://knifewear.com/products/masakage ... 5676741316

[athel]

In general, Aogami Super has more wear resistance (stays sharp longer) but less toughness (more prone to chipping) than Blue #2. Haven't used any of the Anryu knives though, so you should ask others about specific points of comparison between his various lines.

[salemj]

For instance, if you like Anryu-san and/or the hammered look on some of his knives, you could get the 210mm Masakage Koishi gyuto (forged by Yoshimi Kato, who works in the same workshop as Anryu) and the Masakage Mizu 270mm sujihiki (forged by Anryu) from Knifewear for just over $400 USD (their prices are cheaper than here because of exchange rates as far as I can tell). This way you'd put a bit more into the gyuto, which you're probably more likely to use frequently. Just a suggestion though!

Links below:

https://knifewear.com/products/masakage ... hiki-270mm

https://knifewear.com/products/masakage ... 5676741316

Probably not cheaper and generally a bad idea. I didn't do the math, but you have to remember added shipping costs and – significantly – customs. (I'm a US citizen who lives in Canada and also lived in Switzerland, so I deal with this a lot.). I remember in particular that Switzerland had insanely high customs, and the OP is shipping to CH.

I have to agree, however, that the commitment to Anryu seems a bit quick. There are LOTS of good knives for around 200. It is also unlikely that a suji and gyuto in this price range will be a good pair from the same maker: usually, knives in the price range are specific to a size and shape, and not a "brand," per se.

I'd also hesitate to recommend a 240. Swiss kitchens tend to be small (as European kitchens in general). I think it will be easier to navigate with a 210 or a bunka as originally requested. For this reason, I still don't get the slicer. I admire the idea of developing sharpening skills and trying something new, but there are other ways to do this with a smaller knife that will be more useful, especially if you are used to using smaller knives already. Slicers are, in my opinion, not particularly useful for most home cooks day-to-day. There are exceptions (such as Mauichef), but they are rare and often involve people who cook a lot of sushi or cook for very large groups regularly.

Just to respond to the comment above: I wasn't thinking about sharpening in terms of cost so much as utility. I'm very confident that the stones in the Shapton Glass set are all very useful, and would continue to be useful even if you expanded the collection. I'm sure the Naniwa set is similar, and you're right: it is only $25 more. So, if you wanted to spend the extra money, that set makes some sense. I do not feel the same way about the other sets.

But more to the point, I would recommend your latest idea: going much cheaper with a more modest investment. The only reason I didn't suggest this before was that you said you wanted to make one large order for everything all at once. Otherwise, I'd say you really only need a 1-2k stone and a 4-5k stone or strop kit to start, and YES, a combo stone like the one you suggested would be a good fit to learn/practice on. Over time, you'll outgrow it, but it will probably take at least a couple of years. It will save you tons of money, and even after you buy other stones, it will still be a great "travelling" stone: combo stones are great for taking with you to sharpen other peoples' knives, or to bring to a cabin or rental in case you need to sharpen some "stock" knives while on vacation.

I bought my first Japanese knife while in Switzerland. I remember feeling limited due to the costs and distance from suppliers. I think the key is to know exactly why you are buying these knives. If you want a terrific knife that will last a long time, I think there are different things to consider. But if you want a "stepping stone" to more Japanese knives, then your desire for a slicer and your interest in cosmetics make more sense. It might be worth thinking about that for a little bit and sharing your thoughts with us.