Pro looking for a new workhorse

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Doubleojon
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Pro looking for a new workhorse

Post by Doubleojon »

Hello,
Currently looking for a new workhorse to replace my dying baby - a 240mm Richmond Addict Konosuke HD. It was the perfect knife for me. I would happily buy another, but they don't seem to be offered anymore. I loved the profile, the heel height (this is a big one for me), the weight, the ever so slightly blade-forward balance, the edge retention, the ease of sharpening, the ease of maintenance, and the subtle beauty. It was the perfect workhorse. These are, to me, big shoes to fill.
The Kohetsu Hap40 has my attention (mostly because of the steel's properties), but I would prefer something slightly taller.

1)Pro or home cook?
Pro

2)What kind of knife do you want? (Gyuto, Santuko, Petty, Paring, Sujihiki, etc.)
Gyuto

3) What size knife do you want?
240mm (though I could be swayed towards the right 210; it's a smaller kitchen)

4)How much do you want to spend?
<$300

5) Do you prefer all stainless, stainless clad over reactive carbon, or all reactive carbon construction?
I prefer something that isn't needy. I'm very good about cleaning my knives, but sometimes it can get away from me. I'd like something that can hold an edge, and isn't difficult to sharpen.

6)Do you prefer Western or Japanese handle?
Japanese, though I'm not dead set on it.

7)What are your main knife/knives now?
The aforementioned dying Konosuke. Not a lot of room for knife rolls to be laying around, so this one gets me through everything but cleaning tenderloins and breaking down poultry; the garbage house filet knife works in those situations.

8)Are your knife skills excellent, good, fair?
Excellent

9)What cutting techniques do you prefer? Are you a rocker, chopper or push/pull cutter?
I use each technique regularly, depending on the task, but I would say chopping and rocking the most.

10)Do you know how to sharpen?
Yes
Igalor
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Re: Pro looking for a new workhorse

Post by Igalor »

Kurosaki r2
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lsboogy
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Re: Pro looking for a new workhorse

Post by lsboogy »

Take a look at the Matsubara stuff - Mark says it's the same profile as the old Addict (I have one of the non kono jobs) and I have a 210 model of it - It's very tall, cuts very well, and holds an edge

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/mawh1gy24.html
Nmiller21k
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Re: Pro looking for a new workhorse

Post by Nmiller21k »

Gehei blue 2.
Doubleojon
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Re: Pro looking for a new workhorse

Post by Doubleojon »

Igalor wrote: Mon Dec 10, 2018 2:02 pmKurosaki r2
That knife is gorgeous; hoping it comes back into stock soon
Doubleojon
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Re: Pro looking for a new workhorse

Post by Doubleojon »

Nmiller21k wrote: Mon Dec 10, 2018 9:08 pmGehei blue 2.
Great recommendation
Doubleojon
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Re: Pro looking for a new workhorse

Post by Doubleojon »

lsboogy wrote: Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:45 pm Take a look at the Matsubara stuff - Mark says it's the same profile as the old Addict (I have one of the non kono jobs) and I have a 210 model of it - It's very tall, cuts very well, and holds an edge

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/mawh1gy24.html
Really wish this one had stainless cladding. The Blue #2 has it, but not on the spine, which is interesting.

Really appreciate the excellent suggestions
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Re: Pro looking for a new workhorse

Post by Runner_up »

Professional here. I consider the Kanehiro AS gyuto to be the ideal work knife. Great heat treatment on the aogami super leads to stellar edge life. When I was a line cook and this knife saw heavy action six days a week I used to sharpen it once a month, and it would keep it's edge from a ceramic steel for what seemed like ever. It is a stiff knife with a very confident feel, can do everything from shallots to squash with ease. You can forget to wipe it off when you are in the weeds and it will be pretty forgiving since it's stainless clad. In your price range as well. At this point I have many "better" knives, but just love using my Kanehiro.

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/ka24wa.html
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Re: Pro looking for a new workhorse

Post by Nmiller21k »

Runner_up wrote: Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:05 am Professional here. I consider the Kanehiro AS gyuto to be the ideal work knife. Great heat treatment on the aogami super leads to stellar edge life. When I was a line cook and this knife saw heavy action six days a week I used to sharpen it once a month, and it would keep it's edge from a ceramic steel for what seemed like ever. It is a stiff knife with a very confident feel, can do everything from shallots to squash with ease. You can forget to wipe it off when you are in the weeds and it will be pretty forgiving since it's stainless clad. In your price range as well. At this point I have many "better" knives, but just love using my Kanehiro.

https://www.chefknivestogo.com/ka24wa.html
+1
For the same reasons above.
I thought it was out of his price range, I like mine better than Gehei as well.
Cutuu
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Re: Pro looking for a new workhorse

Post by Cutuu »

Kanehiro was going to be my rec also, I waited to think if I could find anything taller. The shiro kamo comes to mind as something that might fit your preferences.
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jbart65
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Re: Pro looking for a new workhorse

Post by jbart65 »

These are all excellent knives. Any would work.

Don’t worry about the spine of the Matsubara. Very few stainless-clad knives cover the spine. The only one on CKTG that I am aware of whose spine is also clad is Kikuichi.

I am not a pro, but if I were, the Kanehiro AS and Kamo R2 would be my top choices. The Kamo is no longer sold by CKTG, however.

1)The Kanehiro is a great all-rounder. Fairly tall with a gradual curve from heel to tip. Chops pretty well on the back end and rocks better than most Japanese knives. Very good push cutter.

The weight is between 6.5 and 7 ounces. So it feels nimble, but still has plenty of power. Takes and holds a great edge, and unlike some other AS knives I’ve used, it does not seem fragile.

2)The Kurosaki R2 hasn’t been in stock awhile, but it’s profile and performance is somewhat similar to the Kanehiro. The Kuro has a thinner tip and feels quite agile. Being a powdered metal it’s fully stainless and holds a good edge. It might be a little too good looking for work, though.

3)The Gihei is the best value among the bunch. Tough blue No. 2 steel that takes a keen edge. The Gihei is a brawny knife that runs around 8 ounces, but it’s got a surprisingly svelte tip suitable for most detailed work.

The knife is fairly flat in the back, then sweeps up near the tip. Makes it a both a good chopper and rocker.

4)Another great value that I like even better, but is not mentioned so far, is the stainless-clad Tanaka B No. 2 Nashiji. Tanaka just does superb work.

The Tanaka weighs a bit less than the other knives mentioned, but it’s hard to tell from its performance. Tip is quite thin, but it fattens near the heel and has plenty of power. Almost like two knives in one.

This knife has an all-round profile like the Kanehiro. It can get as sharp as about anything I’ve owned or used. Tough steel, too. Handle and fit and finish are on the plain side, but that’s probably a good thing at work.

5)The Matsubara Blue No. 2 is the tallest knife of the bunch and closer to what you had from what I gather. The 240 runs around 55 mm.

Difference is, it’s heavier. Few of these knives will come in under 8 ounces, especially the custom-handled ones. While that’s less than a typical German chef’s knife like a Wusthof, it’s still a point to ponder.

The Matsubara shares some characteristics with the Gihei. Pretty flat in the back with an up-sweep near the tip. But the grind is very, very different. Starts higher up and ends less abruptly. That makes it a better cutter in my view. Rarely wedged on anything.

All three Mats that I have used have also had surprisingly thin tips. I am not sure any of the other knives will outdo the Matsubara in that regard. The Kamo is the only one that might have.

My favorite of the bunch? Tossup between the Kanehiro AS and Tanaka.
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Doubleojon
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Re: Pro looking for a new workhorse

Post by Doubleojon »

Wow, these responses are incredibly helpful.
I think I'm going to rule out the Kanehiro; it's just slightly too high in price, when considering the others, to be a work knife. The reason my current knife is dying is due to an egregious error by a co-worker. A bartender was "being proactive" by cleaning up my cutting board and knife, and sent both through dish. The dishwasher, a temp, ran it through the machine several times, thinking that the slight patina was a stain that wouldn't come clean. It's unlikely something like that would happen at this job, but still...

Right now it's down to the Gihei, Matsubara, and Tanaka. I won't be purchasing until after I've finished destroying my bank account through the holidays, so the Matsubara will be ruled out if it isn't available by then.

The Gihei is slightly taller than the Tanaka, which I like, but it is significantly heavier.

Anyone have any experience with both that can lend some insight as to which is more nimble and suited to more detailed work?
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Re: Pro looking for a new workhorse

Post by gladius »

Sorry to hear about the Addict SLD, I have one and it is great. I also have a Gihei, Tanaka and Kanehiro (had AS & Ginsan). The Tanaka will be the most nimble, Gihei most powerful and Kanehiro the most refined. The Gihei would be my recommendation having the most versatile profile (like the SLD) - rock, chop, slice, nice tip with excellent heat treat and mostly carefree. They are all good knives though and any you will be happy with.
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Re: Pro looking for a new workhorse

Post by dAviD »

I gave a 240mm Gihei to one of my prep cooks to use and he loves it. Minimum amount of maintenance and easy to take care of and handle. The price is great for what you get too.
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Re: Pro looking for a new workhorse

Post by jbart65 »

gladius wrote: Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:56 pm Sorry to hear about the Addict SLD, I have one and it is great. I also have a Gihei, Tanaka and Kanehiro (had AS & Ginsan). The Tanaka will be the most nimble, Gihei most powerful and Kanehiro the most refined. The Gihei would be my recommendation having the most versatile profile (like the SLD) - rock, chop, slice, nice tip with excellent heat treat and mostly carefree. They are all good knives though and any you will be happy with.
The Gihei is a better chopper than the Tanaka as Gladius states. I can chop pretty well with a Tanaka with a slight adjustment, but the Gihei is flatter toward the back. The Tanaka will produce somewhat more accordion cuts if your technique slips.

The tradeoff is nimbleness. The Gihei and Matsubara wear their weight very, very well. Much more than a German knife. But neither is quite as nimble as a Tanaka. I doubt it would be an issue for you, though.
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Re: Pro looking for a new workhorse

Post by Chefspence »

I absolutely love the Gihei. I’ve had both 240 and 210. I onlybsold the 240 to try more knives. If I had enough money I would never have let it go. I’m pining to try that Tanaka, and have been hearing for years how great the Kanehiro is. Don’t let the weight of the Gihei throw you, it’s a stellar knife that is easy to get used to. And such a great value with some of the coolest kanji around. Stellar steel on that thing too. I worked the shit out of mine in a pro environment with zero chipping of any kind and only needed to hone it every now and then. As you can tell, I really like it :) Really, you could try the Tanaka, and if you weren’t sure about it, you could sell it and try the Gihei without losing much money in all the transactions.
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Re: Pro looking for a new workhorse

Post by Runner_up »

jbart65 wrote: Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:01 pm
gladius wrote: Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:56 pm Sorry to hear about the Addict SLD, I have one and it is great. I also have a Gihei, Tanaka and Kanehiro (had AS & Ginsan). The Tanaka will be the most nimble, Gihei most powerful and Kanehiro the most refined. The Gihei would be my recommendation having the most versatile profile (like the SLD) - rock, chop, slice, nice tip with excellent heat treat and mostly carefree. They are all good knives though and any you will be happy with.


The Gihei is a better chopper than the Tanaka as Gladius states. I can chop pretty well with a Tanaka with a slight adjustment, but the Gihei is flatter toward the back. The Tanaka will produce somewhat more accordion cuts if your technique slips.

The tradeoff is nimbleness. The Gihei and Matsubara wear their weight very, very well. Much more than a German knife. But neither is quite as nimble as a Tanaka. I doubt it would be an issue for you, though.
For what it's worth Shigeki Tanaka is the blacksmith of Matsubara. I picked up one of the Matsubara gyutos on closeout, knife needed a lot of work. I believe I have probably spent over 4 hours on the stones with it.
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jbart65
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Re: Pro looking for a new workhorse

Post by jbart65 »

Runner_up wrote: Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:20 pm
jbart65 wrote: Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:01 pm
gladius wrote: Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:56 pm Sorry to hear about the Addict SLD, I have one and it is great. I also have a Gihei, Tanaka and Kanehiro (had AS & Ginsan). The Tanaka will be the most nimble, Gihei most powerful and Kanehiro the most refined. The Gihei would be my recommendation having the most versatile profile (like the SLD) - rock, chop, slice, nice tip with excellent heat treat and mostly carefree. They are all good knives though and any you will be happy with.


The Gihei is a better chopper than the Tanaka as Gladius states. I can chop pretty well with a Tanaka with a slight adjustment, but the Gihei is flatter toward the back. The Tanaka will produce somewhat more accordion cuts if your technique slips.

The tradeoff is nimbleness. The Gihei and Matsubara wear their weight very, very well. Much more than a German knife. But neither is quite as nimble as a Tanaka. I doubt it would be an issue for you, though.
For what it's worth Shigeki Tanaka is the blacksmith of Matsubara. I picked up one of the Matsubara gyutos on closeout, knife needed a lot of work. I believe I have probably spent over 4 hours on the stones with it.
I didn't think Tanaka and Matsubara are connected, but someone please correct me if I am wrong.

Whatever the case, the Tanaka knives are quite different than the Matsubara ones. I've owned or used the Sekiso, VG-10, Nashiji and ginsan. All of them have been fantastic cutters.
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Re: Pro looking for a new workhorse

Post by Altadan »

The Matsubara smith is named Katsuto Tanaka, while the Tanaka brand's smith is named Shigeki Tanaka
Easily confusing, as both would be known as "Tanaka-san," but still, different knives, from different men, in different shops, and two different cities :)
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Re: Pro looking for a new workhorse

Post by Jeff B »

With the Kanehiro out I'd go Gihei all the way.
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