Western w2 differentially hardened gyuto

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Carter
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Re: Western w2 differentially hardened gyuto

Post by Carter » Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:27 am

The handle has been thinned down to Steve P's requested specs. Scale from the normalizing process has been ground off. If all is good with handle and profile, the next step will be to grind to about 60-70 percent of finished thickness before heat treating.

Image

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Re: Western w2 differentially hardened gyuto

Post by Carter » Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:58 pm

It has been a while, but I am starting to work on Sean's knife....Steve's is on hold for now.

Spot drilling the unhardened blade for the bolster pins....the spotting bits are very thick and short, so they will not bend or deflect...they are used to make the initial cuts so the drill bit used to drill to size will not wander.
Image

Drilling the 3/32" holes for the pins.
Image

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Re: Western w2 differentially hardened gyuto

Post by nakneker » Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:09 pm

😁😁😁

Fun!
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Re: Western w2 differentially hardened gyuto

Post by Carter » Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:28 pm

Mock-up of the bolster, this is an old scrap piece of bolster material....just checking approximate size and location. The real bolster will be a carbon fiber with copper inlays.
Image

Laying out the holes in the handle for the Corby bolts.
Image

Drilling the 3/16" holes.
Image

nakneker
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Re: Western w2 differentially hardened gyuto

Post by nakneker » Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:45 pm

Thanks for sharing Carter. This is a lot of fun for me!
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Jeff B
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Re: Western w2 differentially hardened gyuto

Post by Jeff B » Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:23 pm

Always cool to watch this as it happens.
If God wanted me to be a vegetarian he wouldn't have made animals taste so good.

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Re: Western w2 differentially hardened gyuto

Post by Carter » Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:22 am

Doing some grinding to thin out the blade prior to claying and heat treating.


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Re: Western w2 differentially hardened gyuto

Post by mauichef » Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:27 am

Thanks for sharing this stuff Carter. Love it!

nakneker
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Re: Western w2 differentially hardened gyuto

Post by nakneker » Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:34 pm

Carter wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:22 am
Doing some grinding to thin out the blade prior to claying and heat treating.

Sparks flying!! Thanks for sharing!
“The goal is to die with memories, not dreams.”

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Jeff B
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Re: Western w2 differentially hardened gyuto

Post by Jeff B » Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:25 pm

Fun video, hope to see more!
If God wanted me to be a vegetarian he wouldn't have made animals taste so good.

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Re: Western w2 differentially hardened gyuto

Post by Carter » Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:26 am

Thanks guys.

This posting shows the initial slurry coating of the blade with furnace cement, this is a very thin coat applied evenly across the blade, it serves two purposes: helping the blade cool faster and more evenly when it is quenched, and then it also makes a good substrate to pencil out the hamon line. In the second photo, I have sketched out the basic hamon design (the more distinct line)....the customer approved.

Image

Image

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Re: Western w2 differentially hardened gyuto

Post by nakneker » Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:33 pm

Thanks Carter. When your doing these differentially hardened blades what kind of failure rate have you experienced, they seem like a PIA in many ways. BTW, I like that busy hamon!
“The goal is to die with memories, not dreams.”

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Re: Western w2 differentially hardened gyuto

Post by Carter » Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:16 pm

nakneker wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:33 pm
Thanks Carter. When your doing these differentially hardened blades what kind of failure rate have you experienced, they seem like a PIA in many ways. BTW, I like that busy hamon!
Most of the failure has been in the choil area....I now make sure to round over the edges of the blade, especially at the choil. I was also getting a high failure rate when just water quenching. Since I started using Parks 50 oil, the failure rate is down and the hardness is still 62+. I also got some good advice from Luke, Bloodroot Blades, to leave the W2 thicker prior to heat treat than I would with non-differential 52100....it does eat up a few more belts having to do more grinding on hardened steel.

Any steel takes more work to differentially heat treat....that is why I charge more for W2 blades than 52100. Both steels are approximately the same price. I could do a differential treatment of the 52100, but the hamon line doesn't really develop visually...and I am not sure many folks want a differentially treated blade w/o the hamon. With W2, the differential heat treat, plus repeated etching and sanding will produce a visible hamon.

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Re: Western w2 differentially hardened gyuto

Post by Jeff B » Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:44 am

Interesting to see the different steps you take with all your blades. Thanks for sharing this!
If God wanted me to be a vegetarian he wouldn't have made animals taste so good.

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Re: Western w2 differentially hardened gyuto

Post by salemj » Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:33 am

Carter wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:16 pm
nakneker wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:33 pm
Thanks Carter. When your doing these differentially hardened blades what kind of failure rate have you experienced, they seem like a PIA in many ways. BTW, I like that busy hamon!
Most of the failure has been in the choil area....I now make sure to round over the edges of the blade, especially at the choil. I was also getting a high failure rate when just water quenching. Since I started using Parks 50 oil, the failure rate is down and the hardness is still 62+. I also got some good advice from Luke, Bloodroot Blades, to leave the W2 thicker prior to heat treat than I would with non-differential 52100....it does eat up a few more belts having to do more grinding on hardened steel.

Any steel takes more work to differentially heat treat....that is why I charge more for W2 blades than 52100. Both steels are approximately the same price. I could do a differential treatment of the 52100, but the hamon line doesn't really develop visually...and I am not sure many folks want a differentially treated blade w/o the hamon. With W2, the differential heat treat, plus repeated etching and sanding will produce a visible hamon.
When I read this I went ahead and looked at BB again—I didn't remember seeing any differential treatments among their products but I have been generally amazed with the feel of the steel in my blade. You're right, though: apparently most of their knives are actually differentially hard, but only by "relieving" the hardness at the spine and handle after treating the whole blade. I thought this was interesting. Is this something you have experimented with at all, such as with your 52100? It seems like such as easy way to get similar performance results without the added costs and time, but of course it lacks all of "mystique" of a beautiful hamon line and the specific type of skill that goes along with that, so I realize you wouldn't market these as differentially treated in that sense. (I also understand that, in the case of BB, things are probably a bit unique because they treat their steels very high and the "relieving" is probably more necessary to avoid brittleness, which is less the case at 60-1.)

I'm thankful and honored at the way you continue to share your journey with us, as well as how you continue to push yourself to learn and try more possibilities.
~Joe

Comments: I'm short, a home cook, prefer lighter, thinner blades, and own mostly Konosukes but have used over a dozen brands.

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Re: Western w2 differentially hardened gyuto

Post by Carter » Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:50 am

salemj wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:33 am
When I read this I went ahead and looked at BB again—I didn't remember seeing any differential treatments among their products but I have been generally amazed with the feel of the steel in my blade. You're right, though: apparently most of their knives are actually differentially hard, but only by "relieving" the hardness at the spine and handle after treating the whole blade. I thought this was interesting. Is this something you have experimented with at all, such as with your 52100? It seems like such as easy way to get similar performance results without the added costs and time, but of course it lacks all of "mystique" of a beautiful hamon line and the specific type of skill that goes along with that, so I realize you wouldn't market these as differentially treated in that sense. (I also understand that, in the case of BB, things are probably a bit unique because they treat their steels very high and the "relieving" is probably more necessary to avoid brittleness, which is less the case at 60-1.)

I'm thankful and honored at the way you continue to share your journey with us, as well as how you continue to push yourself to learn and try more possibilities.
Hi Joe,

Yes, I do believe they torch most of their blades to soften the spine. I have done it on 52100, but only when I have had a warp after quenching (I did try it on a differentially treated W2 blade and it cracked). I don't really feel the need to do this as a regular practice on my 52100, they are treated to approx 62HRC and are not chippy and although the overall blade is hard, they can be bent 90 degrees and will return to vertical without failure.

I am not sure anyone could tell if my W2 blades were differentially heat treated, if the hamon was not visible. For me it is more about honoring a method of blade making, and the hamon is eye candy....albeit cool candy.

There is more to come in this series, one of the two original knives in this project was on hold, but the customer just asked me to proceed. Given this, I will probably bring his blade up to the point of the other blade and then run them in tandem with heat treat, etc. I plan on doing a video on the HT, so we will all experience success or failure together.

CWH

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Re: Western w2 differentially hardened gyuto

Post by nakneker » Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:27 am

Carter wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:50 am
salemj wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:33 am
When I read this I went ahead and looked at BB again—I didn't remember seeing any differential treatments among their products but I have been generally amazed with the feel of the steel in my blade. You're right, though: apparently most of their knives are actually differentially hard, but only by "relieving" the hardness at the spine and handle after treating the whole blade. I thought this was interesting. Is this something you have experimented with at all, such as with your 52100? It seems like such as easy way to get similar performance results without the added costs and time, but of course it lacks all of "mystique" of a beautiful hamon line and the specific type of skill that goes along with that, so I realize you wouldn't market these as differentially treated in that sense. (I also understand that, in the case of BB, things are probably a bit unique because they treat their steels very high and the "relieving" is probably more necessary to avoid brittleness, which is less the case at 60-1.)

I'm thankful and honored at the way you continue to share your journey with us, as well as how you continue to push yourself to learn and try more possibilities.
Hi Joe,

Yes, I do believe they torch most of their blades to soften the spine. I have done it on 52100, but only when I have had a warp after quenching (I did try it on a differentially treated W2 blade and it cracked). I don't really feel the need to do this as a regular practice on my 52100, they are treated to approx 62HRC and are not chippy and although the overall blade is hard, they can be bent 90 degrees and will return to vertical without failure.

I am not sure anyone could tell if my W2 blades were differentially heat treated, if the hamon was not visible. For me it is more about honoring a method of blade making, and the hamon is eye candy....albeit cool candy.

There is more to come in this series, one of the two original knives in this project was on hold, but the customer just asked me to proceed. Given this, I will probably bring his blade up to the point of the other blade and then run them in tandem with heat treat, etc. I plan on doing a video on the HT, so we will all experience success or failure together.

CWH
I’m looking forward to seeing the pair of blades move through the process, I really like and enjoy your openness about the whole process including things that don’t as planned. I’ll keep checking in on the thread, it’s always fun to see a new post from you!
“The goal is to die with memories, not dreams.”

Carter
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Re: Western w2 differentially hardened gyuto

Post by Carter » Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:56 pm

Ok guys....opening the kimono on this one....here is my first real goof on this knife series. I was drilling the holes in the tang of the second knife for the bolster pins 1/8", the 2 Corby fastener bolts 3/16", and finally a 1/4" hole for a mosaic pin. All was going so well, that I got excited and drilled 3 - 1/4" holes in the tang. The Corby fasteners would not be as secure with the larger hole in the tang. The holes for the Corby's are stepped, on the outer part of the handle scale the hole is 1/4" for the head of the fastener to fit into...the inner part of the hole closer to the tang of the knife is 3/16", so I could leave the 1/4" hole in the tang, but there would be no support on the underside of the handle scale when I crank down on the Corby. So I made a 1/4" bushing out of nickel-silver rod and drilled it out to 3/16", it only takes a couple minutes on the lathe. I will insert these bushings into the handle when I am gluing it up and all will be OK.

Drilling the 1/4" holes, the 2 holes outlined in chalk should have been 3/16"
Image

Spot drilling the center of the 1/4" nickel-silver rod so that the larger 3/16" drill won't wander and will drill straight
Image

Drilling the 3/16" hole
Image

Using the cutoff tool to slice off the 2 bushings
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The finished bushings, one is installed for test fitting, the other is sitting on top of the tang
Image

The Corby fasteners, one is screwed together, the other is apart and has a bushing on it, also the step drill and nickel-silver rod
Image

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pd7077
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Re: Western w2 differentially hardened gyuto

Post by pd7077 » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:53 pm

Very clever little work-around that you came up with Carter! Definitely enjoying your posts on the progress of this project 👍🏻
--- Steve

salemj
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Re: Western w2 differentially hardened gyuto

Post by salemj » Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:09 pm

I have to say that – having occasionally tried this myself – I DEEPLY appreciate the increasingly levels of detail, Carter, given that I know stopping to take a single decent photo really adds a lot of time and distraction to a project. Several of us have at least a small interest in photography and realize this, but I'm not sure if everyone does.

It is a big deal to set aside the time, effort, and extra energy to document things in this way. Thanks again for that.
~Joe

Comments: I'm short, a home cook, prefer lighter, thinner blades, and own mostly Konosukes but have used over a dozen brands.

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