Most sought after gyuto knives?

[shinyunggyun]

I think it is well established that the masamoto ks and kiyoshi kato workhorse are some of the most sought after gyuto knives out there. Maybe the sukenari zdp 189 knives also.

What other knives would you say ranks up there with these as the most sought after chef's knives?

And also, how do the knives mentioned above compare to honyaki knives? for those of you who have used them all.

[lsboogy]

Are you asking about working knives or collector pieces? Honyaki blades are not something that most own for daily use, and I woul.d guess that most of us have some pretty personal likes as far as findiing blades. The Kono Fuji stuff seems to be snapped up quick right now, but the HD2 blades used be that way as wll (it took me a long time to get one). And I would put Shigs in front of what you mention

[ken123]

I'm still a fan of the black steel Nubatamas
---
Ken

[jacko9]

Konosuke Fujiyama (I have three of them) 210mm B#2 Gyuto, 240mm B#2 FT Gyuto, 210mm W#2 Petty
Watanabe Pro Nakiri
Watanabe Pro Gyuto
Toyama SS clad Gyuto
Shigefusa Gyuto
Shigefusa Santoku (not used very much as it's too heavy)
Kiyoshi Kato 210mm Gyuto
Kiyoshi Kato 240mm KU Gyuto
Mazaki Gyuto
T-F Nashiji Gyuto
6 other Petty's; Shiro Kamo, Kono GS, Mazaki Stainless,RyuSen SG2 Damascus, T-F Nashiji, Toyama Stainless clad

Out of all these knives I find myself using my 210mm Kono Fuji Gyuto the most, it just fits on my cutting board and is always ready.

[enjay]

Is KS still all that difficult to procure?

[mauichef]

Welcome to the forum!

Agree with enjay and would have to dispute your first comment.
The Kato is definitely sought after but the Masamoto KS! Not in the same league at all.
There was a brief time when the KS was hard to come by and there was a bit of a silly feeding frenzy happening.
But as you say the Kato his still hard to find and expensive when discovered.
I dont think Sukenari are regarded as hard to come by or sought after.

Shigs, Fujiyama especially early ones, Ashi, Tatsuo Ikeda, Tanaka, Shiraki...the list goes on and on. Each person has their own unicorns and many makers have one or two (or more) models that are rare and or, sought after.
Every day there is a "new" unicorn or hard to find knife. Until they aren't

As for the second part of your question...honestly it would take a book to answer.
There is little point in a comparison between say a KS and Fujiyama Honyaki by Shiraki (as an example).
They are such completely different knives. And each Honyaki is different to the next.
How do you want them compared? Steel. Sharpening. Use on the boards? Or are you seeking generalizations?

I'm trying not to come over as being negative but your question is so encompassing that it is really hard to answer without some context.

Are you asking because you want to buy some rare knives? (This seems to be a bit of a fashion recently.) If so...which ones? Then we can offer some constructive and focussed advise or comments.

I, and many others here, have several of the knives you are referring to but I would not be able to give you a complete comparison between just 2 of them without spending hours thinking about them and writing down those thoughts.

In closing......You might want to refine your questions so that we can answer them with some authority and brevity. This post is way to broad to be educational or accurate.

[Jeff B]

The KS bubble has burst. It was a fan favorite in it's day but it had little competition back then. Now days....it's just another knife. To many copies and too much competition.

It's really hard to expand on what Ray put out there, he covered the bases well!

[Kalaeb]

Tough one, out of a thousand members you may get a thousand different answers.

For me, I would love a Burke San Mai with sheep horn handle or one from Mareko would be awesome. I am perpetually on Raders list and can't recommend him enough.

[shinyunggyun]

Well, I do sushi and I'm currently looking for some very high performing white steel gyutos. As far as rarity goes, I understand that the kato workhorse is super rare. But how does kato workhorse, masamoto ks, and the average honyaki compare in terms of performance and edge retention? And which white steel gyutos are ranked as some of the best performing ever?

[Qapla']

Well, I do sushi and I'm currently looking for some very high performing white steel gyutos. As far as rarity goes, I understand that the kato workhorse is super rare. But how does kato workhorse, masamoto ks, and the average honyaki compare in terms of performance and edge retention? And which white steel gyutos are ranked as some of the best performing ever?

If edge retention is a major priority, then why white-steel over, say, a powder-metallurgy steel?

I can't say anything yet from any experience of honyaki gyuto's or about high-line white-steel gyuto's in general, but I've heard good things about the Mizuno white honyaki.

What is your budget?

[salemj]

Well, I do sushi and I'm currently looking for some very high performing white steel gyutos. As far as rarity goes, I understand that the kato workhorse is super rare. But how does kato workhorse, masamoto ks, and the average honyaki compare in terms of performance and edge retention? And which white steel gyutos are ranked as some of the best performing ever?

If you are a research-oriented person, I think you'll quickly find that "best performing" is not really the main discussion point with any of these knives.

Katos are known for being solid performers. But you have to be careful: many people who comment on their solid performance then seem to sell their Katos as "barely used" or "used for one cut," so I'm not sure just how they are vetted. I have no doubt these are magical knives, but I would still hesitate to assume they are better performers on all foods than many other knives at a third of the price.

The KS is known as a great all-around performer. But like many such knives, it is a great all-around performer at the sacrifice of being a particularly excellent performer for specific tasks. I think the KS is a good blade, but unless you are a professional, I think you can do better...especially for sushi, as the KS got its reputation as a gyuto.

Honyakis GYUTOS are notoriously known for prioritizing tradition and fit and finish over actual performance. In the majority of cases, there is absolutely no reason to think that a honyaki gyuto offers better performance than another blade. It may offer better retention, better corrosion resistance, better board feel, or better aesthetics, but often, these knives can perform worse than others because they are much harder to fine-tune during sharpening because the steel is much harder and often smithed thicker (to avoid problems with fracturing during the problematic heat-treat of honyaki blades). Other blade styles are different; from what I've read, white 2 or 3 honyaki blades are most popular as bespoke blades for applications like sushi for practical use, even though it is more common to find white 1 honyakis as the more expensive museum pieces. Anymore, though, I think some forms of stainless have surpassed white steel for these applications in high-volume practice.

None of these would be bad choices for a knife. But the key is what you want from the knife. If you are more specific about how you want the knife to perform, you will get more specific responses.

[mauichef]

Sorry shinyunggyun...I'm more confused now than I was

You want a gyuto to make sushi...is that correct? Or is the sushi reference nothing to do with this?

You also want a list of the top performing white steel gyutos...ever!
Plus you want a comparison between a KS, Kato WH and an "average" honyaki.

First I would definitely listen to the advise offered above by salemj. His honyaki reflections are ABSOLUTELY spot on! (along with the rest of his post). This echos my experience and feelings on these knives, perfectly stated.

But if are you looking to use a KS, Honyaki gyuto or Kato for making sushi? That's a question that can be answered.
No

[enjay]

Well, I do sushi and I'm currently looking for some very high performing white steel gyutos. As far as rarity goes, I understand that the kato workhorse is super rare. But how does kato workhorse, masamoto ks, and the average honyaki compare in terms of performance and edge retention? And which white steel gyutos are ranked as some of the best performing ever?

I guess it'd help if you made the goal a bit more clear: Are you looking for a rare gyuto to collect or to use? If it will be used, will it be used for making sushi only or general prep? Are you a pro or home user?

[Hensed]

I'll try to wade into this discussion as I have a 240 Kato B#2 and a 240 Ikeda Honyaki w#3 and even a late model 240 Kono Fuji B#2. I've had my Kato and Fuji for several years I only recently got the Ikeda. I'm a home cook and I can say I do truly do use them all weekly or monthly.

I'm a mediocre sharpener so I can tell you that I believe that I have never gotten the B#2s up to their full potential I have always found that I can get my whites to a much higher level of sharpness. I just wanted to tell you this to frame my comments below.

Both the Kato and Ikeda are similar in size and especially weight distal taper are pretty close. I just like the Ikeda the knife balance the board feel and the sharpness I can get the knife are very special. The Fuji seems like a feathery blade compared to the other two, so that really comes down to a heft preference.

Some people will wax eloquent about the all around performance of one blade or another. I'll just simply say that from a smile factor it is Ikea Honyaki, Kato B#2 and Kono Fuji in that order.

[taz575]

If you want edge retention, look at HAP40, M390 and R2/SG2. Those steels will take and hold a wicked edge, but are harder to sharpen. You can find gyuto's, but I don't recall seeing any single bevel stuff in those steels. They will be harder/slower to sharpen than say White #1. White typically gets a finer edge than Blue, so if you need that extremely fine/sharp edge more than you need edge holding, look to a white steel knife and just sharpen it more frequently. Or get some super fine J Nats or strops/sub micron solutions and use those for touch ups instead of going through a full progression.

Do you want them for the fish part of sushi or doing the other sushi cutting tasks? Or do you just want a fancy piece to use on special occasions?

[jobone]

Hinoura Riverjump, Kitaeji, unryu

[JoseMartinLopez]

I think it is well established that the masamoto ks and kiyoshi kato workhorse are some of the most sought after gyuto knives out there. Maybe the sukenari zdp 189 knives also.

Since you use "sought after", you are looking along the lines of rarity and collectability and not just performance. Long conversation even if you limit it to Japanese knives only. For example, certain honyaki (including by deceased smiths) are far rarer and collectable than a Kato workhorse, there's no comparison. Eventually you'll decide what you want to collect as it's not likely you'll be interested in (or have the space for) all the sought after knives. There are people who decide they want to have one of each type and length of Shigefusa or Konosuke, there are people who decide they don't want to go to honyaki or single bevel knives, and so on.

Don't think Sukenari ZDP-189 would be that "sought after" or rare as far as ZDP-189 knives go, by the way.

[mauichef]

+1

[Jason183]

I Do noticed not a lot of ppl mentioning Shigafusa workhorse around here but I do heard a lot on different forum, it’s up there with Kiyoshi Kato imo, the king(white 1 version) of Swedish steel 64 HRC and hard to find one, if you can buy one usually cost around 1k USD in B/S/T. For sushi job, I do prefer Masamoto KS, The profile and distal taper making it true multipurpose knife from hours of prep, roll cutting, precision work and can even be used as fish slicer, all you need is a cheap beater knife(Something to hack thru Thick bones) to pair with it, edge retention isn’t good Compared to Kato but very easy to sharpen.

[shinyunggyun]

When I started this thread a while ago, I was fairly new, and didn't have much knowledge when it came to how to go about getting a knife. I thought that most sought after meant the best performing and I thought I had to have a knife of say, kato's level to do my job well.

To answer my own question, after lots of research, I can safely say that the konosuke fujiyamas are the most sought after knives today. Kato, shig, Toyama, watanabe are not far off.

But for the job I am doing, it looks like I don't need knives of that stature at all. I've been using some white #1 and white #2 knives from yoshikazu tanaka, the ones from miuraknives. And these get blazingly sharp. And not all that expensive either. So I find myself asking, why was I even looking for such rare knives in the first place?

I guess I was just looking for some good white steel gyutos that were made by a reputable blacksmith. Yoshikazu tanaka, kenji togashi, yoshikazu ikeda, kazuomi yamamoto, wakui toshihiro, teruyasu fujiwara, mizuno, white steel gyutos coming from any of these guys would have been fine.