Covid vaccine today

[gladius]

Hi @Gladius. I want you to know I enjoy reading your posts on knives, I respect your advice and knoweldge and even though this might be awkward I hope nothing I'm about to write will change that.

...Thank you Rob, I enjoy sharing the knowledge and experience and am glad you and others have found it helpful.

Sometimes having a clear conscience means speaking up even when the topic's unpleasant. So I'm glad you feel free to speak your mind just as I'm about to. Keeping my conscience clear obligates me to respond.... whereas ordinarily controversy like this is something I'd try to avoid.

...I try to avoid it too but when you are swimming upstream, it is hard to avoid it sometime.
...I was actually replying to the first post where Ken asked "How are all of you doing getting a shot? Any reasons for hesitancy?" I simply explained my hesitancy.

For my family and me this is a very simple choice. We believe we have a choice whether to take care of others as we would take care of ourselves or whether to decline what we see as our communal responsibilities to each other.

When weighing any perceived risks we find the balance to be as follows:

Were we to decline to become inoculated and pass it on... to anyone who didn't survive it would be unforgivable. Were we to catch it and pass it on to someone who suffered as many do even if they were to survive to us this would be unforgivable. Were we to pass it on to someone who needed significant care from others the burden we placed on them and those for whom they care to us it would be unforgivable. We believe our responsibilities to others outstrips any risk to ourselves in this case.

We see ourselves as responsible for the burdens our choices place on others and we do our best, in our own flawed and unworthy way, to act in a worthy manner. We see ourselves as responsible for treating others the way we would wish to be treated ourselves and we try to act that way.

We're glad to have acted as we did and we thank anyone else who has done the same.

...I totally agree that we should consider others, this shows love and kindness...as Delmar well stated: "Best to all; be safe; be kind; be gracious." Though we may have made different decisions regarding the jab, I believe the same motivations are at heart. Demonstrate love and stand true to your convictions, against such there is no law.

Thank you for your post @Gladius. I have no wish to try to change your mind and you shouldn't feel obligated to respond as I have no doubt you've made your own carefully considered choices. For my part I will write no further on this topic beyond the following.

I'm glad you have the opportunity to speak your conscience just as I appreciate the same opportunity I've taken.

..."carefully considered choices" indeed, it is a life and death issue.

For anyone else who's read this far thank you for your attention and thank you for considering my family, my friends and the people who support us as you make your own very personal decisions.

...and thank you Rob for respecting my personal decisions.

[gladius]

It is not silencing to point out that the information is false. While it is true to say that mRNA vaccines have not been approved by the FDA before, it is not true to say that they have never been tested in humans before.

The CDC spells it out clearly here -- https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/h ... %20decade..

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I read articles stating mRNA is a new type of "vaccine" not like other vaccines and had not been administered to people before, in fact not approved due to safety concerns seen in the trials. They are in fact being tested now as part of a two year experimental trial and we are seeing similar reactions as in the animal trials.

This is what gives me pause...the opposing view points of the medical community and the disinformation and silencing of opposing viewpoints. It is very frustrating as others have expressed, who to believe? I don't feel there is sufficient data, especially long term data to sway me. What really concerns me are the many doctors warning against the experimental jab and those calling out to mandate the jab. If it was to be forced on me or family, I'd be seeking legal counsel. Nuremberg Code states it is: "Unlawful for any government or organization to force any person into a biological experiment without their consent"

[ken123]

I expect this discussion to go on and on and on. For me it is simple. Covid vaccinations represent an opportunity to reduce risk. My Father died of the flu many years ago. Possibly Legionnaires disease. There were no good diagnostic tests. He died 5 days after being hospitalized. Personally I have NO wish to go through this trauma again. I or my wife orv even those around me may die or get Ill from covid - or not. This represents a risk assessment on my part. I don't care to join the 560 k+ day deaths by choice or the 30.9 million cases reported to date in the USA- a very sizable percentage of our population. I hope the new variants don't cause even more morbidity / mortality even given the relative effectiveness of vaccinations. I hope to hear from all of you in the coming years....

Ken

[kibbles]

No, the actual facts are being twisted into anti-vaccination propaganda.

https://cen.acs.org/pharmaceuticals/dru ... d=noscript

mRNA delivery has been under development for decades, but only in the last few years have we developed appropriate lipid nanoparticles that can safely encapsulate the mRNA and not be harmful to animals/humans. This has now been thoroughly tested and they are safe.

[gladius]

No, the actual facts are being twisted into anti-vaccination propaganda.

https://cen.acs.org/pharmaceuticals/dru ... d=noscript

mRNA delivery has been under development for decades, but only in the last few years have we developed appropriate lipid nanoparticles that can safely encapsulate the mRNA and not be harmful to animals/humans. This has now been thoroughly tested and they are safe.

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If they work reliably as designed, they do hold great potential. I am still inclined to wait and see.

[kibbles]

They do work reliably as designed, that's what all the testing has shown over the last handful of years. The LNP they are now using for these vaccines (the mRNA vaccines) has been shown to be safe. And that was the real issue - how do we protect the mRNA (which is very fragile) in a way that is not toxic to people? That was the breakthrough that happened a handful of years ago and has allowed the development of safe mRNA vaccines.

I don't agree with your views, but I respect your right to choose. But I do have a serious issue with spreading blatant misinformation. The medical field and published literature has shown these LNPs to be safe. In addition, you are not being silenced. No mods have deleted your posts even though they contain misinformation that may lead people to make a harmful choice in the middle of a pandemic. If that's not the opposite of being silenced then I don't know what is.

[jacko9]

They do work reliably as designed, that's what all the testing has shown over the last handful of years. The LNP they are now using for these vaccines (the mRNA vaccines) has been shown to be safe. And that was the real issue - how do we protect the mRNA (which is very fragile) in a way that is not toxic to people? That was the breakthrough that happened a handful of years ago and has allowed the development of safe mRNA vaccines.

I don't agree with your views, but I respect your right to choose. But I do have a serious issue with spreading blatant misinformation. The medical field and published literature has shown these LNPs to be safe. In addition, you are not being silenced. No mods have deleted your posts even though they contain misinformation that may lead people to make a harmful choice in the middle of a pandemic. If that's not the opposite of being silenced then I don't know what is.

I agree wholeheartedly with a persons right to refuse treatment but, where I have a difficult time is that the people refusing might continue to be spreaders and the more this virus spreads the more it seems to mutates . If the mutations evolve faster than medical science can respond we might have a disaster like mankind hasn't seen before. So people refusing treatment should be isolated by a National Emergency and travel and gathering restrictions might be necessary without some kind of mitigation proof after all we have had at least 550,000 deaths in America alone in one year. Education and science over mis-information!

[gladius]

I don't agree with your views, but I respect your right to choose. But I do have a serious issue with spreading blatant misinformation. The medical field and published literature has shown these LNPs to be safe. In addition, you are not being silenced. No mods have deleted your posts even though they contain misinformation that may lead people to make a harmful choice in the middle of a pandemic. If that's not the opposite of being silenced then I don't know what is.

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Thank you for respecting my choice. It is based on analysis of my search which I cited - contradictory views for sure, clearly it is not unanimous with good doctors claiming the other side is wrong but who to believe? This what causes me pause.

I was referring to the doctors with opposing view points being silenced, not myself.

[kibbles]

I don't agree with your views, but I respect your right to choose. But I do have a serious issue with spreading blatant misinformation. The medical field and published literature has shown these LNPs to be safe. In addition, you are not being silenced. No mods have deleted your posts even though they contain misinformation that may lead people to make a harmful choice in the middle of a pandemic. If that's not the opposite of being silenced then I don't know what is.

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Thank you for respecting my choice. It is based on analysis of my search which I cited - contradictory views for sure, clearly it is not unanimous with good doctors claiming the other side is wrong but who to believe? This what causes me pause.

I was referring to the doctors with opposing view points being silenced, not myself.

What peer-reviewed, published research are these people citing? Because that's really where the rubber meets the road.

Taking a look at the video, here's an article on Dr. Andrew Kaufamn (who is not a virologist, epidemiologist, or any type of doctor that would qualify him as an expert on these things - he's a psychiatrist).

https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid ... es-reality

I'm willing to bet if I investigate the other doctors in that video, I'm going to find similar issues, agendas, and misinformation fountains. I don't consider these "good" doctors. What I would like to see from those who think the mRNA vaccines are dangerous is peer-reviewed, published evidence of current generation LNPs still being toxic to humans. If people are not citing that type of published research, then it is just unfounded, unsupported opinion and should carry little to no weight.

[mauichef]

And thus should not be appearing on this forum disguised as facts or conspiracies.
Facebook maybe...but not here

[cliff]

Facebook shut down Tenpenny for spreading misinformation. She has made a career trying to link vaccines to autism and minimizing the risks of measles.

[mauichef]

Facebook shut down Tenpenny for spreading misinformation. She has made a career trying to link vaccines to autism and minimizing the risks of measles.

Touché

[ken123]

@kibbles. As someone who has 38 peer reviewed publications in multiple journals, I couldn't agree with you more.

As Bertrand Russell once said, "Is there any knowledge SO certain that no reasonable man might doubt it?"

Ken

[ken123]

So far no side effects from the shot

FB_IMG_1617682826186.jpg (22.42 KiB) Viewed 1607 times

Ken

[kibbles]

Ok, how did you find my yearbook photo?

My own experience with the first shot was not too bad, all things considered. Arm soreness, fatigue, and just a general "off" feeling. I'll be getting the second vaccination later this week and I'm guessing it'll be a bit worse, but that's alright with me.

[Jeff B]

We can list contradicting information all day. Read all kinds of debate about "my information is better than yours" and "my decision is more informed than yours". But I also have to look at it even beyond the science in what seems like a common sense way for me. I don't see our government and medical community vaccinating 100's of millions of people if it is truly dangerous. How could that possibly be beneficial to ANYBODY?

I do respect everybody's views and decisions about this. We can only learn from debate and listening to each other but we all must do what we feel is best for our individual situations and beliefs.

[Karl_in_Chicago]

My wife got her 2nd Pfizer last week, I get my 2nd this Friday. Neither of us had any reaction after the 1st, just typical arm soreness. After her 2nd shot my wife had some flu-ishness for maybe 12 hours and said her arm was a lot more sore but other than that she's been fine. Getting scheduled was initial a royal PITA but once they opened the max-vax site at the United Center I was able to get her scheduled fairly easily and then when my age group opened up (I'm younger) I also got a window (all online). Prior to my vax date I received an update from my primary health care provider (NW Hospital) that they had supply that I was now eligible for so switched to them (they are just across the river from me, even easier commute than the UC). Process at both places was extremely smooth - lots of friendly and competent National Guardsmen at the UC and similar cadre of hospital staff at NW. In and done within 10 minutes or so at both then a 15 minute wait for observation and back on the street.

Looking forward to having less on my mind to worry about, though I definitely want to embrace Jimmy Kimmel's "lessons learned" about how to integrate what we learned from the pandemic in a post-pandemic world . . . "I look forward to eating out but I don't ever want to go to a meeting again".

[jacko9]

We can list contradicting information all day. Read all kinds of debate about "my information is better than yours" and "my decision is more informed than yours". But I also have to look at it even beyond the science in what seems like a common sense way for me. I don't see our government and medical community vaccinating 100's of millions of people if it is truly dangerous. How could that possibly be beneficial to ANYBODY?

I do respect everybody's views and decisions about this. We can only learn from debate and listening to each other but we all must do what we feel is best for our individual situations and beliefs.

I agree Jeff but one thing that is not in dispute is the fact that over 550,000 United States Citizens are dead from this COVID-19 virus and doing nothing will just add to that number as we have seen in the past year. We as a country are only managing to slow it down but, with the continuing resistance to "manage the spread" we are seeing more and more mutations of this virus. When it was first discovered in the gateway coastal cities some people wanted to "play it down" but, now it has spread to all corners of our country so it's time to pay attention to medical scientists.

[cliff]

... Process at both places was extremely smooth - lots of friendly and competent National Guardsmen at the UC and similar cadre of hospital staff at NW. In and done within 10 minutes or so at both then a 15 minute wait for observation and back on the street.

I want to echo this. I can't say enough good things about the people at the vaccination site. Getting scheduled was a PITA, but, once I got there, everything went smoothly.

[gladius]

I do respect everybody's views and decisions about this. We can only learn from debate and listening to each other but we all must do what we feel is best for our individual situations and beliefs.

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Thanks Jeff. Common sense again bringing perspective.
Bottom line: it is our own body and we must each decide if it makes sense for us to participate in a mass experimental medical trial of a gene altering therapy against a virus that is very survivable.