Kono Sanjo MB white 2. What's the deal?

[Chicagohawkie]

Having a hard time grasping the cost of these new Kono MB white 2 knives. What am I missing? They are at Shigefusa and Kato prices! I mean twice the cost of a Fujiyama? There must be at least a story to these?

[pd7077]

I picked up one of the 210s last month, and it's my current favorite. Keep in mind...I'm a total rookie when it comes to JKs. Bought my first JKs this past January: a Masakage Koishi 240 and Takeda NAS 170 bunka. So my experience is limited to those knives and the knives that I convinced my cousins to pick up last month (Sukenari ginsan and Kanehiro AS).

I have no idea how it stacks up against other Konos (or Shigs or Katos), but it's a totally different feel from what I have tried in the past. It's definitely got more of a blade heavy balance compared to my Koishi, but I did have it rehandled right away so I have no idea how the stock balance was. The Sanjo also looks to be thicker at the spine, but the grind gets pretty darn thin behind the edge. F&F is impeccable, and the fact that it comes with a nice burnt chestnut handle and matching magnetic saya is worth the added cost IMO. Here are a few pics:







I love the 210 so much that I bought a 240 the other day...it's scheduled to be delivered tomorrow I can't really tell you if it's truly worth what it costs, but it's worth it to me. My only problem is that one of my cousin's loved it so much that I promised he could have it if I was able to get the 240

[Omega]

Wow that choil looks different from most other Konos.. Would it be possible to get a few caliper measurements?

[Kalaeb]

Perhaps he is testing the upper limits of his sales power. When demand is high for your products it is perfectly reasonable to increase price to make supply and demand more in sync. If they sell out like his others then he knows he has not reached the ceiling.

[Chicagohawkie]

I picked up one of the 210s last month, and it's my current favorite. Keep in mind...I'm a total rookie when it comes to JKs. Bought my first JKs this past January: a Masakage Koishi 240 and Takeda NAS 170 bunka. So my experience is limited to those knives and the knives that I convinced my cousins to pick up last month (Sukenari ginsan and Kanehiro AS).

I have no idea how it stacks up against other Konos (or Shigs or Katos), but it's a totally different feel from what I have tried in the past. It's definitely got more of a blade heavy balance compared to my Koishi, but I did have it rehandled right away so I have no idea how the stock balance was. The Sanjo also looks to be thicker at the spine, but the grind gets pretty darn thin behind the edge. F&F is impeccable, and the fact that it comes with a nice burnt chestnut handle and matching magnetic saya is worth the added cost IMO. Here are a few pics:







I love the 210 so much that I bought a 240 the other day...it's scheduled to be delivered tomorrow I can't really tell you if it's truly worth what it costs, but it's worth it to me. My only problem is that one of my cousin's loved it so much that I promised he could have it if I was able to get the 240

Have you seen or tried an old kono Fujiyama?

[pd7077]

Wow that choil looks different from most other Konos.. Would it be possible to get a few caliper measurements?

The 210 is already on its way to my cousin, but the 240 arrives tomorrow so I'll take measurements of it for you when I get home from work.

[pd7077]

Have you seen or tried an old kono Fujiyama?

Unfortunately, I haven't been in the game long enough to have tried anything. I really wanted a Kono Fuji W#2, but I have never seen them in stock. I almost went for one of the W#2 lasers a couple of months ago, but I held off for some reason....but I jumped on the Sanjo as soon as I saw it.

[meesterleester]

I donnt think they can be compared to the fujis. I think of fujis as a classic Sakai style while the MB are In the styles of Sanjo. Maybe the cities and the knives come from there would be a better comparison.

FWIW I think the MB are done by Hinoura whose own personal line garners high prices. My thoughts at least

[Chicagohawkie]

FWIW I think the MB are done by Hinoura whose own personal line garners high prices. My thoughts at least

I think your on to something here!
Although the Sr. Hinoura commands high prices, the son does not.

[Cutuu]

Im curious about the details of this story too. The grinds do look nice.

[salemj]

I just assumed that a large part of the price was the handle and saya. Mark said that Kosuke spent a very, very long time on the magnetic saya design, and it does seem rather unique and "artistic." Who knows. One thing I've learned is that, like with so many other items (esp. cars), the price you pay is more about preference than about any "absolute" performance in this range.

[Chefspence]

Maybe he has to pay for the patent on the saya? Other than that, I'm at a loss, though I'd pay for it if I had the money. I've only ever spent $220 max for a knife thus far. There's my dilemma.

[meesterleester]

FWIW I think the MB are done by Hinoura whose own personal line garners high prices. My thoughts at least

I think your on to something here!
Although the Sr. Hinoura commands high prices, the son does not.

Haha in my opinion Sr. gets insane prices (rightfully, as his work is insane) while his son does get closer to the Fuji price, and so I also think the saya and handle connection is reason for increase in regards to the konosuke.

I am almost certain that Hinoura Jr. makes this line. He offers almost an identical line under his own brand for many different, his Shirogami KU with iron cladding (different than the Tamashii) is probably the most offered, second being the Aogami Super. I just recently purchased a gyuto in AS and came to this conclusion during my research beforehand.

[Chicagohawkie]

All I know is it's a KU knife and doesn't have half the FnF of the Fuji lines? Chestnut is as basic and common as ho wood and there is no Ferule or detail work. Perhaps I'm missing something here, hence why I asked if there is some story in regards to this offering. I don't think I've ever seen a 550 dollar KU blade before that's why this struck me as odd?

[milkbaby]

I agree with meesterleester that these are possibly by Mutsumi Hinoura from Sanjo. Both the profile and the choil pics look like examples of Hinoura's knives online as well as an example of his work that I own too. If it is by Hinoura, I also would bet it's an excellent knife. I have a gyuto by both Mutsumi Hinoura and his father Tsukasa Hinoura, and though I haven't done a side by side A/B comparison, I don't feel there is a huge performance difference between the two. In fact, I rarely use the elder's knife after I got the son's knife, sadly it's mostly a drawer queen now though an awesome one.

If it is by Hinoura, then compared to the Tamashii line by Hinoura at cktg, the pricing doesn't seem too ridiculous. From looking on the product pages, the Hinoura Tamashii 210 gyuto is $340 and 240 is $400 now. So if anything, at $399 the Kono Sanjo MB with a really nice saya might be considered a bit of a good deal in comparison? The big bump in price to 240 length makes me think of the bump in price that Teruyasu Fujiwara commands from 210 to 240 tho, quite steep.

I wonder if the saya and handle are made from the same piece of wood, which would also add cost. While the handle is simple, it's not the typical factory handle and seem to be a custom job made for Konosuke, so that would add to the cost over buying the typical pre-made factory handles and installing them.

I think I'd be willing to pay $550 for a Kiyoshi Kato 240 mm kurouchi gyuto. Also, I'd pay over $550 for a bunch of other knives too if I had the expendable income to do it. I think Devin Thomas is doing a test run of 10 to 12 metals for kitchen cutlery and they will run $750 each knife, so you're looking at an investment of $7500+!

NEWSFLASH: Not sure if linking other retailer is kosher here? But Tosho explicitly says on a similar shirogami #2 knife by Hinoura, "This petty knife made by Mutsumi Hinoura for Konosuke Sakai" here: https://www.toshoknifearts.com/collecti ... r-sujihiki and in the pics you can see the Konosuke kanji on the blade face.

[meesterleester]

I agree with meesterleester that these are possibly by Mutsumi Hinoura from Sanjo. Both the profile and the choil pics look like examples of Hinoura's knives online as well as an example of his work that I own too. If it is by Hinoura, I also would bet it's an excellent knife. I have a gyuto by both Mutsumi Hinoura and his father Tsukasa Hinoura, and though I haven't done a side by side A/B comparison, I don't feel there is a huge performance difference between the two. In fact, I rarely use the elder's knife after I got the son's knife, sadly it's mostly a drawer queen now though an awesome one.

If it is by Hinoura, then compared to the Tamashii line by Hinoura at cktg, the pricing doesn't seem too ridiculous. From looking on the product pages, the Hinoura Tamashii 210 gyuto is $340 and 240 is $400 now. So if anything, at $399 the Kono Sanjo MB with a really nice saya might be considered a bit of a good deal in comparison? The big bump in price to 240 length makes me think of the bump in price that Teruyasu Fujiwara commands from 210 to 240 tho, quite steep.

I wonder if the saya and handle are made from the same piece of wood, which would also add cost. While the handle is simple, it's not the typical factory handle and seem to be a custom job made for Konosuke, so that would add to the cost over buying the typical pre-made factory handles and installing them.

I think I'd be willing to pay $550 for a Kiyoshi Kato 240 mm kurouchi gyuto. Also, I'd pay over $550 for a bunch of other knives too if I had the expendable income to do it. I think Devin Thomas is doing a test run of 10 to 12 metals for kitchen cutlery and they will run $750 each knife, so you're looking at an investment of $7500+!

NEWSFLASH: Not sure if linking other retailer is kosher here? But Tosho explicitly says on a similar shirogami #2 knife by Hinoura, "This petty knife made by Mutsumi Hinoura for Konosuke Sakai" here: https://www.toshoknifearts.com/collecti ... r-sujihiki and in the pics you can see the Konosuke kanji on the blade face.

I agree on all point. I swear I read elsewhere soemone saying the Sanjo MB specifiacallu made by him. Really love my Hinoura gyuto.

[Jeff B]

...From looking on the product pages, the Hinoura Tamashii 210 gyuto is $340 and 240 is $400 now....The big bump in price to 240 length makes me think of the bump in price that Teruyasu Fujiwara commands from 210 to 240 tho, quite steep.

The bump in price between the 210 and 240 of the MB is $140. Even the TF wasn't that bad.

[meesterleester]

...From looking on the product pages, the Hinoura Tamashii 210 gyuto is $340 and 240 is $400 now....The big bump in price to 240 length makes me think of the bump in price that Teruyasu Fujiwara commands from 210 to 240 tho, quite steep.

The bump in price between the 210 and 240 of the MB is $140. Even the TF wasn't that bad.

That is only for the Tamashii and the product page they explain that the 210 is more like a petty when considering the difference in size when comparing to the 240. The price gap between siz s in his lines elsewhere is not nearly as dramatic

[pd7077]

I can't find my digital calipers so I had to use an old crappy caliper to take measurements of the 240.



Edge Length: 237mm
Blade Height: 49.2mm
Spine @ Handle: 2.9mm
Spine @ Heel: 2.0mm and it holds this thickness until about 5cm from the tip where the grind starts







The KU nashiji is well done. Please let me know if there are any other measurements that you guys want.

[ChefKnivesToGo]

Lovely pictures Steve. May I mooch the last one?