First impression on dois

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Cutuu
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First impression on dois

Post by Cutuu » Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:59 pm

What do u guys think about your dois?

snipes
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Location: ATL

Re: First impression on dois

Post by snipes » Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:15 pm

Man, I thought you were sharing your first impressions. Also interested.

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Jeff B
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Re: First impression on dois

Post by Jeff B » Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:22 pm

snipes wrote:
Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:15 pm
Man, I thought you were sharing your first impressions. Also interested.
He got me too! :evil:
If God wanted me to be a vegetarian he wouldn't have made animals taste so good.

TomCutlery
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Re: First impression on dois

Post by TomCutlery » Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:05 pm

Jeff B wrote:
Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:22 pm
snipes wrote:
Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:15 pm
Man, I thought you were sharing your first impressions. Also interested.
He got me too! :evil:
It's like opening the cookie jar only to find it empty :(

Rufus Leaking
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Re: First impression on dois

Post by Rufus Leaking » Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:26 am

Would you like to hear my impression of Elvis?.... OK- here goes....."Thank you.... Thank you very much!".....

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limpet
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Re: First impression on dois

Post by limpet » Sat Jul 15, 2017 11:27 am

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Jsgillis86
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Re: First impression on dois

Post by Jsgillis86 » Sat Jul 15, 2017 1:59 pm

:lol: @ limpet.

There's gotta be a tacky nickname in there somewhere.

pd7077
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Re: First impression on dois

Post by pd7077 » Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:41 pm

Today was my first real day to test drive the Doi so I guess I'll start, but please keep in mind that I'm a noob so I'm probably not the best when it comes to assessing knives. Hopefully the vets will chime in soon :?

F&F with the polished edge and satin cladding is nothing short beautiful. The spine and choil were not necessarily rounded off, but they were not sharp either. It was definitely comfortable. Balance is just forward of my punch grip, right at the base of the kanji...the sweet spot for me.

The OOTB edge was good. I don't think I'm experienced enough to rate it on a scale from 1-10, but it was sharper OOTB than my Kono MB but not anywhere close to my Koishi. It cut through tomatoes just fine, but it did have just a little trouble biting into the skin on the free-standing tomato test. After some light stropping on a SP 5k, it wasn't a problem anymore.

There is no real flat spot on the Doi. It's more of a gentle curve along the entire edge profile. The largest flat I could find on my example was a smidge over 1-1/2" long approximately 2" from the heel. Even so, I didn't have any issues with accordion cuts when push cutting. Chopping green onions was a different story so I probably won't be doing much chopping with it.

Mincing garlic and herbs....a breeze. Spongy mushrooms...not a problem. Dicing tomatoes and red peppers...all good there too. She pretty much flew through everything today. Not a single trace of wedging on the huge potatoes my wife bought. Too bad I don't have any thick carrots on hand. No onions today either so I wasn't able to test the tip on horizontal cuts. Food release was decent, but some things (i.e. zucchini) did climb up the blade face a bit, but it wasn't anything that a flick of the wrist couldn't handle.

Considering that the knife is iron clad B#2, I expected her to form a patina rather quickly. But as others have stated previously, that is not the case. Mine is starting to show a bit of color that I'm sure will only get better over time.

All in all, im super stoked about this knife. She made a really good first impression, which means that she will likely be getting a new handle soon. And now time for the knife porn!!!

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J david
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Re: First impression on dois

Post by J david » Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:24 pm

Nice review pd, and great pictures. Your thoughts echo some of my own. Thanks for the review.

Kalaeb
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Re: First impression on dois

Post by Kalaeb » Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:39 pm

Nice write up.

I am in the process of getting a new handle made for mine so I have not used it a ton, but here is a short review I put on the other thread:

Quick specs of mine: 250mm, 47 mm tall at the heel, 209 grams (would be slightly heavier if I attached the handle with epoxy)3.25 mm thick at the heel, 2.59 mid way and 1.9 an inch from the tip. OOB edge was pretty dang good, maybe a 7 or 8 out of 10. I have not sharpened yet.

USPS did a number on the package, I was little fearful when I saw it, but when I opened it everything checked out perfectly. The finish is a beautifully done hazy finish done parallel to the edge. The contrast between the core steel and iron jacket is perfectly done, there are a few deeper errant scratches, but nothing to detract from the overall appearance. The spine polished and clear effort has been done to make it more comfortable, I think I will likely round it a little more, but this is not normally something I see on a knife in this price point. The choil is also polished, albeit not as well as the spine but the effort is noted. There is one sharp spot on the choil that I will put some work into, but overall well done.

The grind is obviously convexed. Oddly enough the left side of the blade is more convexed than the right, I don't know if this was done on purpose or not, I don't mind it I just have never noticed that on a J knife in the past. More importantly, the grind is well executed with the center 1/3 of the blade carrying the bulk of the convexing and the lower 1/3 moving into a adequately thin edge. I say this because the area behind the edge is not super thin like we have been used to in past gyutos, but thin enough to make it a versatile all rounder. I personally hate the anorexic edge and much prefer this type grind. That being said...it will not glide through large diameter carrots like Shibata's knives do, but separation on starches was supreme.

The iron cladding, while reactive, was not near as reactive as I thought it would be. As far as iron cladding goes, I would say this is on the less reactive side. It is easily manageable. The core steel, less reactive than the cladding is really a non issue if you exercise common sense.

The edge profile....this is where I think most people got it wrong. Initially it was thought this was going to be very KS orientated with a large mostly flat profile... in fact, nothing could be further from the truth. There is one, very small 2 inch flat at the heel, the rest of the edge is a well executed curve to a very low tip. The tip sits at 18.62mm (.733 inches). Because the tip is so low, some pics may may it look flat, but its not. IMO this is perfect. It has a phenomenal feel on the push, pull and chop with a ever so slight forward motion, also works well for low board rocking with garlic of smaller quantities of herbs.

The handle...honestly, this is probably my only real grip and its not even that much of a grip because I am making a new one. I know the woodworker can make some cool stuff, this is not one of them. The walnut was very rough on two of the sides, visible splinters were protruding from the wood, I had to sand it down with a 320 just to dry mount it on the knife to play with it. This is my first handle where there has been a negative taper...taller at the ferrule than the butt, (not by much, but still..) I realize these were cheap ones to put on but would have gladly paid another 20 bones for some semblance of finishing.

Overall, I am over the moon impressed with this knife and look forward to working it out in the coming weeks.

Cutuu
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Re: First impression on dois

Post by Cutuu » Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:48 pm

Hahs guys, sorry about that. I was actual curious what some people thought about these blades. Mine has been a bit of drawer queen,because i have no saya for it and haven't wanted to take it to work without one. The onlu action it has gotten is one light home dinner. I rarely cook at the housr these days, which i miss. My small first impressions are this is a really high quality blade for the cash. It is on par in craftsmanship with my takayuki ginsan. It has really beautiful dual kanji. The fit and finish is done well. It seems a hair more polished thsn on my ginsan. It starts out the same thickness ( by eye) in the spine as the takayuki and stays that way for about a third. The doi starts to taper a little more after that. The tip doesnt get really thin, but at the tippy tip tip itd pretty thin. The knive has a wonderful stoutness without being clunky. There is no wasted motion in excess thickness coming out of the tang. It is super smooth. Tge knive just screams smoithness and elegance. It seems pretty sharp ootb but nothing amazing, (probably a 5 or 6 on the gamache scale), but to me its usable. Its nimble without a hint of whispy or whippyness. The grind is really nicely convexed producing a confident edge( ot me r at least it seems i havent used it much). Ill stop there for now and see if some others chime in. I started writing this in tbe morning and didnt finish before work. I ses some others others have postex since.

Cutuu
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Re: First impression on dois

Post by Cutuu » Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:54 pm

Im pretty sure there is a laquer on these,which is deterring reactivity.

Kalaeb
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Re: First impression on dois

Post by Kalaeb » Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:21 am

Cutuu wrote:
Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:48 pm
It has really beautiful dual kanji.
Speaking of Kanji, does anyone know what each side says? I assume the right side is Itsou Doi, but the left?

Rufus Leaking
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Re: First impression on dois

Post by Rufus Leaking » Sun Jul 16, 2017 9:17 am

My japanesish is a little rusty, I only know what I picked up from Godzilla movies, but here goes- "Ass, cash, or grass- nobody rides for free"..... I'm pretty sure that's what it says.

SteveG
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Re: First impression on dois

Post by SteveG » Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:37 am

After some product testing this weekend I've concluded that this is just NOT my kind of knife - and it kind of pisses me off, because I really wanted this to fit my preferences. It's obviously a gorgeous blade that has a solid, powerful feel and a beautifully crafted edge profile. It's not a chopper, but it rocks great over medium/low height product, is excellent on push/pull/G&G strokes. Tip draw cuts are also treat with the lower tip.

Tip performance and product wedging are my two big issues with this knife and make it a no-go for my preferences. I don't need an absolute laser, but I place a premium on how a knife flows through product without much cracking on sweet potatoes, carrots, large onions. I also really like a high performance tip that makes onion/shallot dices a pleasure rather than a chore. If the knife flows well through halving/quartering cabbage, all the better.

I tested the Doi on cabbage, sweet potatoes and large/tight, and smaller/fresh onions, plus bell peppers and other misc. product using the OOTB edge. For me, this thing was a total wedge monster on sweet potatoes. Halving/quartering sweets produced a loud crack and the cut surface actually showed texture where the potato split vs. cut. It took a lot of muscle to keep the knife moving. Halving large onions was better on the front half of the blade, but not to my liking either. The tip performed OK through smaller onions, but I didn't think it flowed very well through larger onion dice. Halving/quartering cabbage required muscle so the knife wouldn't get stuck during the cut. In comparison, the Kurosaki Megumi R-2 240 flew through all these products like a hot knife through butter, but the trade-off is that it has a more delicate feel that requires more attention to technique.

On pd7077's post above, the products he tested are the kind of things on which I would be OK using this knife and I feel like it would do really well on slicing proteins, though I haven't tried that. Overall, I was very much hoping I would love this blade, but, alas, wedded kitchen bliss for me, it is not...que sera sera.

I'm wearing asbestos underwear today, so flame away :twisted:

gladius
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Re: First impression on dois

Post by gladius » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:15 am

SteveG wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:37 am
After some product testing this weekend I've concluded that this is just NOT my kind of knife - and it kind of pisses me off, because I really wanted this to fit my preferences. It's obviously a gorgeous blade that has a solid, powerful feel and a beautifully crafted edge profile. It's not a chopper, but it rocks great over medium/low height product, is excellent on push/pull/G&G strokes. Tip draw cuts are also treat with the lower tip.

Tip performance and product wedging are my two big issues with this knife and make it a no-go for my preferences. I don't need an absolute laser, but I place a premium on how a knife flows through product without much cracking on sweet potatoes, carrots, large onions. I also really like a high performance tip that makes onion/shallot dices a pleasure rather than a chore. If the knife flows well through halving/quartering cabbage, all the better.

I tested the Doi on cabbage, sweet potatoes and large/tight, and smaller/fresh onions, plus bell peppers and other misc. product using the OOTB edge. For me, this thing was a total wedge monster on sweet potatoes. Halving/quartering sweets produced a loud crack and the cut surface actually showed texture where the potato split vs. cut. It took a lot of muscle to keep the knife moving. Halving large onions was better on the front half of the blade, but not to my liking either. The tip performed OK through smaller onions, but I didn't think it flowed very well through larger onion dice. Halving/quartering cabbage required muscle so the knife wouldn't get stuck during the cut. In comparison, the Kurosaki Megumi R-2 240 flew through all these products like a hot knife through butter, but the trade-off is that it has a more delicate feel that requires more attention to technique.

On pd7077's post above, the products he tested are the kind of things on which I would be OK using this knife and I feel like it would do really well on slicing proteins, though I haven't tried that. Overall, I was very much hoping I would love this blade, but, alas, wedded kitchen bliss for me, it is not...que sera sera.

I'm wearing asbestos underwear today, so flame away :twisted:
--------------
+1 too on all points :(
I would rather have seen what Doi could have made without trying to adhere to making a KS clone.

TomCutlery
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Re: First impression on dois

Post by TomCutlery » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:22 am

I tried mine on some carrots and initially it wedged pretty bad and I switched over to the Kashima for a bit but when I came back to it it performed better. I'm not sure what to make of this but the knife went from startlingly wedgy to not gliding through but definitely a much more smooth performance.

salemj
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Re: First impression on dois

Post by salemj » Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:34 am

Thanks for the post, Steve. From the start I thought this knife would not be for everyone or everything. It is nice to see a review that articulates this point more aggressively: often, great knives are very specifically not liked by everyone, but because they are not designed to do a little bit of everything well, but to excel in relation to certain users and certain techniques.

I'm kinda curious about Gladius's comment. I'm confused what this has to do with making a KS clone, especially because very few of the attributes described by Steve have much to do with Doi. It seems as if many of the comments so far are focusing on the profile and grind of the knife, as well as the finish, but it is likely that Doi had very little to do with any of these, and the idea of a KS clone for this knife is not really sensible, either (Mark often provides a profile sketch for new products; here, he provided a sketch based on a KS, but he didn't ask for a clone, he just provided a profile sketch and said something like this).

One thing that hasn't been discussed much yet is the heat treatment and the cladding, and this is where Doi had the most influence, in my opinion. As Cutuu remarked, the knife likely has a laquer, but I haven't seen anyone comment on specifically removing this first before juding the cladding in terms of friction, texture, and patina, And the knife seems to take an edge, but I haven't really heard mention of stones yet...still curious.

My skepticism is not about the knife being good. It is about whether the knife is actually such a good fit for everyone. I also just get annoying when people talk about a specific smith when we already know that a particular knife was not made by a single smith, or even a single workshop, but was rather produced Sakai style, passing from one place to the next as needed.

Love the comments, good and bad—not trying to shut anything down. Keep them coming in all directions!
~Joe

Comments: I'm short, a home cook, prefer lighter, thinner blades, and own mostly Konosukes but have used over a dozen brands.

pd7077
Posts: 244
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:02 pm
Location: Bay Area, CA

Re: First impression on dois

Post by pd7077 » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:02 am

salemj wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:34 am
...As Cutuu remarked, the knife likely has a laquer, but I haven't seen anyone comment on specifically removing this first before juding the cladding in terms of friction, texture, and patina, And the knife seems to take an edge, but I haven't really heard mention of stones yet...still curious....
I should have mentioned that I did wipe mine down with acetone prior to first use. I typically do this to all knives once I receive them. Here is another shot after an additional day of use. Not much change from the day before.

Image

I did go through some carrots and shallots yesterday. Carrots were medium sized and not the thickness that would generally pose a problem. The Doi did have a little resistance halfway down, but not what I would consider wedging and no snapping at all. I'll try to get some larger carrots and denser root veggies this week.

gladius
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Re: First impression on dois

Post by gladius » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:10 am

salemj wrote:
Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:34 am
I'm kinda curious about Gladius's comment. I'm confused what this has to do with making a KS clone, especially because very few of the attributes described by Steve have much to do with Doi. It seems as if many of the comments so far are focusing on the profile and grind of the knife, as well as the finish, but it is likely that Doi had very little to do with any of these, and the idea of a KS clone for this knife is not really sensible, either (Mark often provides a profile sketch for new products; here, he provided a sketch based on a KS, but he didn't ask for a clone, he just provided a profile sketch and said something like this).

One thing that hasn't been discussed much yet is the heat treatment and the cladding, and this is where Doi had the most influence, in my opinion. As Cutuu remarked, the knife likely has a laquer, but I haven't seen anyone comment on specifically removing this first before juding the cladding in terms of friction, texture, and patina, And the knife seems to take an edge, but I haven't really heard mention of stones yet...still curious.
--------
Semantics perhaps but I have never seen a Doi gyuto and wonder if this is his first stab at it (pun intended). Might have been nice to see what he would design on his own. Taller perhaps with better grind?? The single bevel knives are great but this one doesn't perform as I thought it would.

The heat treat though seems very good and it sharpens up quite well with a clean edge off a 4k. I started with a 300 and progressed through 1k, 2k & 4k. The steel is done well no doubt.

By contrast I also received the same day a K.Kato 210 which took a clean edge up through Yaginoshima and though thicker, moved quite well through hard product, side-by-side it wasn't close.

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