Squash: The not so silent killer of knives
Re: Squash: The not so silent killer of knives
Best thread title ever! Made me laugh. For squash I like to use a cheap and heavy cleaver that I took to the EP and put on a 20 degree highly polished edge. Of course, this is at home so I don’t know how to handle this if in a restaurant. If I had a massive quantity to cut I’d probably use a chisel and mallet.
Re: Squash: The not so silent killer of knives
Ignorant question here: What is the difference between a "Western deba" or "yo deba" vis-a-vis a thick-ass gyuto?
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Re: Squash: The not so silent killer of knives
^^^ Hey .... So they're all knives right? How different can they be? Debas, as far as I know, are going to be single beveled and much thicker at the spine and in their grind. They're made to go through the bones and cartilage of the fish as well as the flesh. Even a thicker workhorse style gyuto probably isn't going to be designed to hack through fish bone on a regular basis. The edge will roll / wear and -arguably- the blade might flex more than you'd want.
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Re: Squash: The not so silent killer of knives
Yeah but every "western" deba that I have seen is a double bevel. I wonder where the idea even came from.
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Re: Squash: The not so silent killer of knives
I've read about squash vs knife encounters -- I believe it -- but I've always been a little surprised.
I've simply kept a nicely sharpened old Henckels 10" around for any work I'm doing on squash or melons. Here it is below. Sandwiched nicely between my Richmond Artifex and Anryu Hammered Blue. Two other knives I use on tougher, denser ingredients.
I've simply kept a nicely sharpened old Henckels 10" around for any work I'm doing on squash or melons. Here it is below. Sandwiched nicely between my Richmond Artifex and Anryu Hammered Blue. Two other knives I use on tougher, denser ingredients.
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Re: Squash: The not so silent killer of knives
Ignorant answer here: I'm just sort of inventing my own terminology, so take this with a big grain of salt. But it mostly comes down to the blade shape and size. I take it that Japanese-style debas are usually on the shorter and taller side compared to most gyutos; unless you're butchering huge fish, under or around 200mm seems to be most common. Of course, debas come in all sorts of sizes... I just tend to think of shorter, squatter blades when I imagine a classic deba. But I'm sort of new to all this.
The 180mm Kajiwara is supposed to be big enough to butcher large salmon, tuna, and swordfish. It's a massive knife in such a small package, and I can't imagine wanting a bigger blade than that in a home kitchen. The Tojiro is a much different beast, and with that profile I could see wanting the 240mm. But it's a different style of knife. At least in my mind. I don't know if my distinction here maps onto a "real" distinction in the knife community.
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Re: Squash: The not so silent killer of knives
I have a 240 Tojiro Western Deba. It's a beast and the steel holds up better than CCKs for heavy chopping. Going through pork ribs, lobsters, turkey and even lamb bones (not beef ribs). Even works for pruning trees Works fine on squash, but it wedges a bit. If you take too hard of a swing you can split cutting boards (plastic and wood).
Also works well if you need to lend a knife to someone who you think might damage your thinner knives.
Western debas are double bevel, not single bevel like 'real debas'. Totally different usage.
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Ken
Also works well if you need to lend a knife to someone who you think might damage your thinner knives.
Western debas are double bevel, not single bevel like 'real debas'. Totally different usage.
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Ken
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Re: Squash: The not so silent killer of knives
What does it say that I read this thread and then found myself buying a kabocha at the farmer's market? I guess I have the utmost confidence in my Gihei (though I do have a Wusthof and Forschner on hand, just in case).
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Re: Squash: The not so silent killer of knives
I might have to whip up a video
Squash isn't any different than other ingredients with the right technique.. never chipped or bent a knife on one. Including 30 pounds of pumpkin
Squash isn't any different than other ingredients with the right technique.. never chipped or bent a knife on one. Including 30 pounds of pumpkin
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Re: Squash: The not so silent killer of knives
Neither have I and I know my technique is not very good at least compared to most of you. I'd say it is fair at best. I have asked the question before but when I see knives with a quarter sized chip I wonder just what was done to the knife...Nmiller21k wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:16 am I might have to whip up a video
Squash isn't any different than other ingredients with the right technique.. never chipped or bent a knife on one. Including 30 pounds of pumpkin
Re: Squash: The not so silent killer of knives
Nice Handle on that anryu. They have a little thinner spine then i expectedRobstreperous wrote: ↑Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:09 pm I've read about squash vs knife encounters -- I believe it -- but I've always been a little surprised.
I've simply kept a nicely sharpened old Henckels 10" around for any work I'm doing on squash or melons. Here it is below. Sandwiched nicely between my Richmond Artifex and Anryu Hammered Blue. Two other knives I use on tougher, denser ingredients.
Re: Squash: The not so silent killer of knives
Funnily enough, I just birthed my own butternut squash killer and broke it's cherry this week. It's 15N20 monosteel at about HRc 61, very freaking tough. I chopped in half then quarters before peeling and "chunking".
I also use a custom chefs knife in shirogami steel that has no issues cutting acorn squash. Part of it is geometry: though this nakiri is thin behind the edge, it's not anorexic nor is the custom chefs. The other issue is that I usually cut on end grain or edge grain wood boards, not directly on a granite countertop like so many of Mark's customers?
I bet a lot of chippers are torquing the blade resulting in chips out of the edge. A problem with other ingredients if a knife is very high hardness and super thin at the edge... bad technique = no bueno
I also use a custom chefs knife in shirogami steel that has no issues cutting acorn squash. Part of it is geometry: though this nakiri is thin behind the edge, it's not anorexic nor is the custom chefs. The other issue is that I usually cut on end grain or edge grain wood boards, not directly on a granite countertop like so many of Mark's customers?
I bet a lot of chippers are torquing the blade resulting in chips out of the edge. A problem with other ingredients if a knife is very high hardness and super thin at the edge... bad technique = no bueno
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Re: Squash: The not so silent killer of knives
I made soup last week and used my new (used) Suisin Inox: the laser of lasers. A breeze, except I could really feel the asymmetry at times. Usually, my go-to for squash is my Kono Ginsan, which is actually the second most laser-like knife I own, and probably the most delicate feeling over all. I find lasers to the best job and very quick work, but that is me. They are very easy to control, very easy to "saw" without wedging, and they glide through the squash without an issue. When "chopping" smaller cubes I use a euro technique and generally leave the tip on the board while slicing through to avoid any potential for a surprise hit against the board. I've never had an issue that I can recall. Not sure if I'd want to use something like that in a professional setting...I'd probably just use a thinner Fibrox. I find thinner is always better for hard produce like squash. I do usually peel it first, if that does make a difference.
~Joe
Comments: I'm short, a home cook, prefer lighter, thinner blades, and own mostly Konosukes but have used over a dozen brands.
Comments: I'm short, a home cook, prefer lighter, thinner blades, and own mostly Konosukes but have used over a dozen brands.
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Re: Squash: The not so silent killer of knives
I very, very rarely eat hard squash. I do eat a lot of melon, though and always use a laser to cut them which some people seem to advise against. I had no idea why, makes a good melon knife.salemj wrote: ↑Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:33 pm I made soup last week and used my new (used) Suisin Inox: the laser of lasers. A breeze, except I could really feel the asymmetry at times. Usually, my go-to for squash is my Kono Ginsan, which is actually the second most laser-like knife I own, and probably the most delicate feeling over all. I find lasers to the best job and very quick work, but that is me. They are very easy to control, very easy to "saw" without wedging, and they glide through the squash without an issue. When "chopping" smaller cubes I use a euro technique and generally leave the tip on the board while slicing through to avoid any potential for a surprise hit against the board. I've never had an issue that I can recall. Not sure if I'd want to use something like that in a professional setting...I'd probably just use a thinner Fibrox. I find thinner is always better for hard produce like squash. I do usually peel it first, if that does make a difference.
Re: Squash: The not so silent killer of knives
It's because of poor technique. They try to push the blade through the melon (or squash) rather than using a cutting motion. Then, when the blade stalls, they torque the blade trying to get it out and either bend the blade or chip the edge. Blaming it on a thin blade or fragile edges rather than their technique, they fall back to using thick knives and mallets, like they were splitting wood.
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Re: Squash: The not so silent killer of knives
"Works fine on squash, but it wedges a bit."
I do agree that with good technique, a thinner knife passes with ease through squash - avoiding the hard woody stem, not twisting the blade into the board etc. In my hands, I'm OK with a thinner knife, but for newbies who like to blame the knife, there will be chips with bad technique.
FWIW, I slow cook kubocha and other hard squashes in a tagine without peeling them. Cooked long and slow enough the 'skin' softens and is perfectly edible.
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Ken
I do agree that with good technique, a thinner knife passes with ease through squash - avoiding the hard woody stem, not twisting the blade into the board etc. In my hands, I'm OK with a thinner knife, but for newbies who like to blame the knife, there will be chips with bad technique.
FWIW, I slow cook kubocha and other hard squashes in a tagine without peeling them. Cooked long and slow enough the 'skin' softens and is perfectly edible.
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Ken
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Re: Squash: The not so silent killer of knives
I don't have any problem with squash using the Richmond safety knife.
https://www.chefknivestogo.com/risa10chkn.html
Granted I did do a reasonable job of sharpening it
https://www.chefknivestogo.com/risa10chkn.html
Granted I did do a reasonable job of sharpening it
Home cook that enjoys sharp knives.
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Re: Squash: The not so silent killer of knives
I don't think you'd have a hard time decapitating a bull moose with that...Ut_ron wrote: ↑Mon Oct 16, 2017 1:07 pm I don't have any problem with squash using the Richmond safety knife.
https://www.chefknivestogo.com/risa10chkn.html
Granted I did do a reasonable job of sharpening it
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Re: Squash: The not so silent killer of knives
Really is a work horse. Even my son in law, Mr. hatch man dies hurt it.
Was very surprised on how good the steel is for a $10 knife.
Was very surprised on how good the steel is for a $10 knife.
Home cook that enjoys sharp knives.
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Re: Squash: The not so silent killer of knives
I picked up an old Sabatier that I cleaned up solely for this purpose. I call it my squash knife. It's also carbon, so it falls into the "nobody can use this but me" category. Damn... I guess my wife can't cook squash this year.