alanhuth wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:24 pm
He seems to share the belief that the KS is truly special. I’ve never tried one but I suspect that maybe true. It was certainly true in the case of the Kono HD2. It took me a long time to find one of those, and when I finally got lucky, I was amazed how much better I liked it than supposedly similar or comparable knives.
alanhuth wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2018 7:24 pm
He seems to share the belief that the KS is truly special. I’ve never tried one but I suspect that maybe true. It was certainly true in the case of the Kono HD2. It took me a long time to find one of those, and when I finally got lucky, I was amazed how much better I liked it than supposedly similar or comparable knives.
I agree on the HD2. I too am surprised how it compares to similar knives and I was very skeptical at first. That is not to say the gap is huge, because it is not, but there is a noticeable difference.
Looking down on the spine of the Matsubara, the blade looks like a isosceles triangle. It is quite thick by the handle but it tapers continuously down to a very thin tip. OOTB it digs in within 1 cm using the Murray Carter 3-finger sharpness test. Most knives I’ve bought never dig in at the same pressure OOTB. Shibata R2 did after about an inch. Moritaka dug in in places and not in others. Part of the hand-made charm IMHO. Fortunately, it’s super-easy to sharpen, even for a wobbler like me.
alanhuth wrote: ↑Mon Jan 08, 2018 9:40 pm
Looking down on the spine of the Matsubara, the blade looks like a isosceles triangle. It is quite thick by the handle but it tapers continuously down to a very thin tip. OOTB it digs in within 1 cm using the Murray Carter 3-finger sharpness test. Most knives I’ve bought never dig in at the same pressure OOTB. Shibata R2 did after about an inch. Moritaka dug in in places and not in others. Part of the hand-made charm IMHO. Fortunately, it’s super-easy to sharpen, even for a wobbler like me.
Is it thick or thin behind the edge? I'm happy to hear about a nice distal taper. How's the height on yours?
Mine’s right at 48mm. I’ve never measured thinness behind the edge. What I do is wet my index finger and thumb, pinch the blade about half an inch from the edge and slide my fingers off. If it feels like shooting a watermelon seed, then I say it’s thin behind the edge. Using that measure, I’d say it’s about average for my knives, mostly KS clones and lasers.
mauichef wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 2:59 pm
I would love to try that Ginsan.
That sure is a beauty, what is ginsan 3 anyway?
Ginsanko, Gin3, Silver 3: Ginsanko is a fine grained high carbon content (1% + carbon) stainless steel with the cutting feel and ease of sharpening of a carbon steel. In the hands of a skilled smith ginsanko will be very similar to white steel’s edge formation and sharpenability. Many Sakai knife smiths have some sort of ginsanko offerings. Working HRC is between 60 to 62, Ginsan is sometimes considered to be the stainless equivalent of White 2 steel.
I'm also tempted by the KS coming around the bend. I've tried one and back in the day did a lot of research on them...certainly long before the supply issues of late. I have no need for a knife of this type in this range, but there is no doubt it is a good knife and performs well at a lot of tasks.
I actually think of it much more as a pro knife than anything else, which is along the lines of JBart's comments above. It is all about performance. 100%. And a certain kind of performance. I like the short height as I think it has everything to do with performance, but Mark's comment above (too short, too long, et al) is the exception that proves the rule: it is too short and too long for a lot of home cooks, but these features are precisely what help it as an all-arounder in a pro setting, from what I've gleaned (I'm not a pro). The shorter height provides for a flatter profile (but not a FLAT profile) from heel to tip; it also allows the belly and the spine to both taper toward the tip such that the tip becomes extremely versatile: unlike many other "pointed" tips, the shorter height on the KS means that the tip is not only pointed, but very short with equal taper on the top and bottom...such that the first inch or so of the tip can function like a petty in terms of "twisting" through ingredients (and it also has the right amount of flex to do this, too); meanwhile, the rear end is thicker at the spine AND at the edge, and the grind angle changes from heel to tip. The monosteel also has specific affects in terms of feedback, stiffness, and flex that provide for a predictable knife in the hand that is still "forgiving" in use and on ingredients.
These are techniques that most home cooks are immediately told to avoid with a Japanese knife. But in a pro's hands, using the tip of a 255mm knife like a petty is actually possible - and convenient - as is find ways to adapt its geometry for different types of biased and angled slicing while using the bit of flex and mono-steel "stamped"-thin spine to aid in exact cuts. And the shorter height is also convenient in reducing drag, in slicing, in gutting flat peppers or skinning a fish, etc., etc. It is not "ideal" for most of these tasks, but again, in a pro's hands, it can do them all, usually about 80-90% as well as a specialized blade, I would guess.
Oddly, you'd think this would make it great for a home cook, since most home cooks use 1-2 knives for everything. But it doesn't, mostly because these techniques require a the user to adjust to the knife to a major degree, and most home cooks prefer the knife to "fit" their techniques (and their smaller cutting boards) without adjustment. I think the same is true in terms of sharpening the knife: to get the most out of its geometry, you need to actually sharpen the knife differently at the heel than the tip, and this takes someone who knows how to use the knife differently at different sections, as well as someone who sharpens enough to know how to get a great edge without relying on a strict, measured angle from heel to tip.
All that said, my Ikeda is now so fine-tuned that it would be very hard to usurp as my go-to "long and short" gyuto. And my guess is that it would honestly outcut the KS in its current form for most of those specific tasks, especially dealing with large batches of herbs and the like. But I haven't quite let go of my Suisin Inox yet, and part of me now wants to complete the collection of "laser icons" with the KS despite the fact that it will not perform better than virtually any of my other knives for any specific meal (since I usually choose a knife that works well for the ingredients of the day, and the KS is best as an all-arounder). Such a tough call...am I really just a collector at this point?!?
~J
Comments: I'm short, a home cook, prefer lighter, thinner blades, and have tried dozens of brands over the years.
salemj wrote: ↑Tue Jan 09, 2018 3:45 pm
Such a tough call...am I really just a collector at this point?!?
I don't know but I fully intend to buy one if I am able to. If you get one and don't decide to keep it I am sure you will have no issue selling it. One sold on the other forum the other day in like 3 seconds...
alanhuth wrote: ↑Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:20 am
Fingers crossed. My knife rack is like a convention of Elvis impersonators. Sure would be nice if the King entered the building.
I'm Dave. I don't take myself too seriously and you probably shouldn't either.
ChefKnivesToGo wrote: ↑Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:04 am
I was told that Hitachi made G3 to knock off 19C27 which was starting to gain traction with knife makers in Japan years ago. It seems to have worked.
delmar wrote: ↑Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:26 pm
I've been looking with one with more of a robust grind that has an aggressive taper. The matsubara might be the ticket.
