What I can't find on CKTG

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jbart65
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What I can't find on CKTG

Post by jbart65 »

The thread about what next for Makoto got me thinking: What is it I want on CKTG that I cannot find?

Two things:

*A great 180 nakiri. About 60-65 tall and less than 7 ounces, with a "thin" feel.

*A 90 mm parer/petty with a wa handle that is stainless (R2 or ginsan) and/or stainless clad.

What is it that you can't find?

***

I have bought many - most - of my knives from CKTG because of the great selection, the great service and the great community. But the two knives I list above are the only ones I’ve had to leave the site to find.

I’ve tried lots of nakiris, perhaps two dozen. The best I’ve used is the Yuki 165. Loved the 60mm height but found it too short in length.

I think a 180 is the ideal length, even for home cooks. More efficient than a 165 and feels better in the hand. A 165 feels small by comparison, especially if it runs short as many do.

The best nakiris I’ve used also tend to be 55mm or taller. Adds chopping power, the ability for slight convexing and of course scooping.

Yet keeping the weight down is also important. The sweet spot to me is about 6.8 ounces. Heavy enough for good chopping power but still easy to swing rapidly without fatigue. Once they top 7 ounces they start to lose their nimble feel. And a half-pound feels like it for most blades.

I ultimately had to get a Watanabe to satisfy myself. But I got him to give me the lightest nakiri on in his current run with an upgraded and lighter wa handle. The dimensions are 180 long, 58-59 mm tall and 6.7 ounces.

I would have liked a bit more height, but not so it pushed the nakiri over 7 oz. I don’t think I would have liked a regular Watanabe as much because they are heavier.

The Watanabe cuts as well if not better than the Yuki, but it is thicker mide-blade and lacks just a touch of go-through-air feeling, So almost perfect, but not quite.

The parer I want is impossible to find with one exception. Kamo makes one for another site in R2 steel. Problem is, the darn thing cost $150.

I don’t use a parer much - but my wife does. I bet that’s the case with quite a few households.

She’s got three Wusthofs that she uses all the time. I’d love to get rid of them. Buy a pair of wa-handled ginsan or R2 90mm if they were available for $100-120. The Wusthofs are hard to keep sharp and are not fun to sharpen.

Why 90mm? A 3 ½ inch parer is the easiest to use in hand, especially for people like my wife with smaller hands. At 4 inches and over they can’t quite into spots as nimbly as a 90 mm blade.
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Re: What I can't find on CKTG

Post by Robstreperous »

jbart65 wrote: Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:52 am The thread about what next for Makoto got me thinking: What is it I want on CKTG that I cannot find?

*A 90 mm parer/petty with a wa handle that is stainless (R2 or ginsan) and/or stainless clad.
uite into spots as nimbly as a 90 mm blade.
Actually Jefry it was pretty much just that. I wanted one about 100 to 110 mm western handle with a thin neck in a PM. Ultimately last year Tim Johnson built me one in V35N.

Point being --- shortish petty, western(ish) handle, tough steel. Expect to be working with Carter soon on the next one.

Relative to the nakiri angle to your thread... I've gone/have you considered ... a different route. 210 Takeda bunka. Understand I tend toward the lithe and you toward the powerful... but I'm finding the added height, food release, and glide through the food wonderful. My poor Shimo nakiri is gathering dust.
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Re: What I can't find on CKTG

Post by Kit Craft »

My Gesshin Ginga stainless wa petty is listed as 100mm but is 92mm.

As for what I can not find on the site, a large selection of natural stones. :p I mean, that is what I am ALWAYS looking at. Not only a large selection but a scale for hardness and an example of the finish left by said rock. IE a system that sells the rocks individually tested rather than by lot. And more numbers from more mines of course. These things do already exist so I am fine if Mark has no interest though. :) I still get most of my synthetics here. :D
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Re: What I can't find on CKTG

Post by jbart65 »

CKTG has some stuff close to what I'd like to see in a parer, but not quite. They are either iron cladded, too expensive or have Western handles.

Most German parers run 3 1/4 to 3/ 3/4 for a reason. Japanese equivalents tend to be longer. Cooks Illustrated found that it's testers overwhelmingly preferred a 3.5 inch parer, though I wonder if most of them were women.

On CKTG the closest substitutes are Hinouri 90mm, but it's iron cladded; a 90-97mm Takeda that costs $270; a Tojiro DP 90mm; and a Yahiko VG 10 90 mm.

While I prefer a wa handle, my wife might be best off with a Western. I might buy the Yahiko in my next order. For $39 not much to lose. If the quality of the VG is similar to what Tanaka does it could be a great option.

Still would like an R2 or ginsan version, or perhaps stainless cladded blue. Anryu does a 75mm. Would love to get the same one at 90 mm.

On lithe vs powerful: I think I am a middle-of the-roader, Rob. Most of my knives weigh between 5.5 and 7.5 ounces, I prefer them around 6.5 oz for the best combination of lithe and powerful. I get very sensitive to weigh above 7.5 ounces. Knives start to lose their nimble feel.

Kit, CTKG used to stock many more stones, but Mark said it was too costly after factoring weight, shipping and slower sales vs knives. Truth is, I'd rather spend more money on knives than stones - unlike you it seems! (-:
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Re: What I can't find on CKTG

Post by Rufus Leaking »

For me, it isn’t what I can’t find, it’s what I see too much of. I don’t understand the multi-hued “custom” handles that add nothing to the aesthetic value of a knife, but often double its price. Colors not seen in nature unless you’re high- pink handles, the like- I just can’t see owning one of these. I much prefer a traditional look, but I know nothing of the market for stuff like this. I’d like to see more walnut, ebony, olive custom handles at a more affordable price. The Tanakas come to mind. The ho handles to me are garbage; the pores bacterial breeding grounds, they feel rough, but the steel is fine. Ho handles in general are a turn off, and I understand the weight/balance thing.
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Re: What I can't find on CKTG

Post by Kit Craft »

jbart65 wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:55 am


Kit, CTKG used to stock many more stones, but Mark said it was too costly after factoring weight, shipping and slower sales vs knives. Truth is, I'd rather spend more money on knives than stones - unlike you it seems! (-:
Some people like their rocks on their finger attached to a small round piece of gold. I like mine on a display rack. :mrgreen: I have been watching what Mark has for naturals for about 3 years, maybe before that he had loads more, I do not know but even three years ago he only had a few more. That said, I can imagine it is a huge undertaking. particularly when you have customers like me who want a stone that has been tested, documented, photoed etc. I want to know how hard it is, what finish it gives, the mud and swarf production.

I am cool with Mark being my go-to knife guy and getting my stones from a few others, as I said. :)

As for knives...I need to thin the herd. I am not one of those guys who can keep a dozen knives in my rotation. They are starting to become underutilized. Stones, though, are different. If the mood strikes me I can pull out a stone that has a different feel in use but leaves a similar edge. Or releases a different scent even. I don't know what it is but something about sharpening calms me.

Hell speaking of things not offered that I would like to see and stones specifically, I would like to see more basics. I still like my king stones. Maybe not so much the 220 or 1000 but pretty much everything else. The 300 gets a lot of press but they are hard to find. The Hyper series seems to be well liked but again, not the easiest to find and when you do find them direct from JP you have $26 shipping per stone. The 8k is a hell of a stone, imo, as well but that one is easier to find but I would still like to see it more available. Even the 800 and 1200 stones are great to have kicking around but I assume that Mark sold the basic 800,1,1.2,6k at one time and decided against them. I don't recall.

But again, I am all about sharpening. I would love it if it were sharpening stones to go. :D
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Re: What I can't find on CKTG

Post by Bbuth7575 »

Rufus Leaking wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:12 am For me, it isn’t what I can’t find, it’s what I see too much of. I don’t understand the multi-hued “custom” handles that add nothing to the aesthetic value of a knife, but often double its price. Colors not seen in nature unless you’re high- pink handles, the like- I just can’t see owning one of these. I much prefer a traditional look, but I know nothing of the market for stuff like this. I’d like to see more walnut, ebony, olive custom handles at a more affordable price. The Tanakas come to mind. The ho handles to me are garbage; the pores bacterial breeding grounds, they feel rough, but the steel is fine. Ho handles in general are a turn off, and I understand the weight/balance thing.
I agree wholeheartedly on this. I don't care for the funky. More handles like the Cherry that Gopherbroke did or the ones that Bensbites does. Ben did a handle for my Tanaka santoku and it's a 1000X better than the broomstick it came with.
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Re: What I can't find on CKTG

Post by Kit Craft »

I also agree with the handles. But...they sell so people must like them. I am cheap and like ho wood when it means I can save $100! If I love the knife THAT much then I can have it rehandled later.
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Re: What I can't find on CKTG

Post by mauichef »

Me too. Not a big fan of the bright colors...but as you say Kit...they are selling as fast as a Ferrari Enzo!
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Re: What I can't find on CKTG

Post by Kalaeb »

American makers...Except Butch(he is listed on CKTG here).

I know there are obvious supply and demand issues in dealing with American or non Japanese makers and potentially more time involved in listing individual pieces, however, there are numerous places that use "garage makers" as marketing tools to drive site traffic, and they appear to be doing a good job.
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Re: What I can't find on CKTG

Post by ChefKnivesToGo »

Mario is sending more knives soon and I’m also doing some more stuff with Randy.
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Re: What I can't find on CKTG

Post by Kalaeb »

ChefKnivesToGo wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:29 pm Mario is sending more knives soon and I’m also doing some more stuff with Randy.
That is what I am talking about.
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Re: What I cian't find on CKTG

Post by Cutuu »

mauichef wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:14 pm Me too. Not a big fan of the bright colors...but as you say Kit...they are selling as fast as a Ferrari Enzo!
I tend to agree, but... Some of them i really like. For example, the one recently on the moritaka kirtsuke. I think when there is to much dissonance between the spacers and handles it irritates my eyes.
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Re: What I can't find on CKTG

Post by old onion »

I still can't find these on CKTG.


More of a side joke then anything,because when I first asked Mark about these,he brought it up to the members and there was a resounding " no way!" lol. I can't believe we spend thousands on Japanese knives and stones and no Japanese Maekakes.
Opps! I forgot,we were talking about handles..lol
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Re: What I can't find on CKTG

Post by ChefKnivesToGo »

Rufus Leaking wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:12 am For me, it isn’t what I can’t find, it’s what I see too much of. I don’t understand the multi-hued “custom” handles that add nothing to the aesthetic value of a knife, but often double its price. Colors not seen in nature unless you’re high- pink handles, the like- I just can’t see owning one of these. I much prefer a traditional look, but I know nothing of the market for stuff like this. I’d like to see more walnut, ebony, olive custom handles at a more affordable price. The Tanakas come to mind. The ho handles to me are garbage; the pores bacterial breeding grounds, they feel rough, but the steel is fine. Ho handles in general are a turn off, and I understand the weight/balance thing.
hahahah I'm guessing you've seen the new arrivals lately? I literally can't keep the customs in stock. As soon as I put them on they sell and the colored handles are super popular. Some customers dig them.
For instance, this pretty pink one lasted less than 24 hours. https://www.chefknivestogo.com/moascudekn18.html Anyway, I know, different strokes for different folks but these customs are bringing us a lot of money and attracting new customers to the site.

I agree with the crap plastic ferrules and we've eliminated a lot of those over the past couple years. They only stay on the very, very cheap knives since some customers are very price sensitive and the ho handles only add about $2 to the price of the knife.
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Re: What I can't find on CKTG

Post by old onion »

ChefKnivesToGo wrote: Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:15 am
Rufus Leaking wrote: Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:12 am For me, it isn’t what I can’t find, it’s what I see too much of. I don’t understand the multi-hued “custom” handles that add nothing to the aesthetic value of a knife, but often double its price. Colors not seen in nature unless you’re high- pink handles, the like- I just can’t see owning one of these. I much prefer a traditional look, but I know nothing of the market for stuff like this. I’d like to see more walnut, ebony, olive custom handles at a more affordable price. The Tanakas come to mind. The ho handles to me are garbage; the pores bacterial breeding grounds, they feel rough, but the steel is fine. Ho handles in general are a turn off, and I understand the weight/balance thing.
hahahah I'm guessing you've seen the new arrivals lately? I literally can't keep the customs in stock. As soon as I put them on they sell and the colored handles are super popular. Some customers dig them.
For instance, this pretty pink one lasted less than 24 hours. https://www.chefknivestogo.com/moascudekn18.html Anyway, I know, different strokes for different folks but these customs are bringing us a lot of money and attracting new customers to the site.

I agree with the crap plastic ferrules and we've eliminated a lot of those over the past couple years. They only stay on the very, very cheap knives since some customers are very price sensitive and the ho handles only add about $2 to the price of the knife.
Hey,wait a minute,are you calling my Mizu cheap?...lol :o
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Re: What I can't find on CKTG

Post by ChefKnivesToGo »

Yeah the Mizu is one that I haven't tried to alter. I forgot about that one. It's pretty plastic... :)
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Re: What I can't find on CKTG

Post by Rufus Leaking »

@ Mark- I thought there was a reason behind the multi-hued handles, and I’m not surprised they are as popular as they appear to be. They simply do not appeal to me; for one thing I can imagine being distracted by their intrinsic trippy beauty and lopping my thumb off. I don’t care for odd handle shapes as well, but Ken Onion is living pretty large these days, I’d imagine.
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Re: What I can't find on CKTG

Post by old onion »

ChefKnivesToGo wrote: Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:55 pm Yeah the Mizu is one that I haven't tried to alter. I forgot about that one. It's pretty plastic... :)
You are forgiven...this time. :P
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Re: What I can't find on CKTG

Post by Kit Craft »

ChefKnivesToGo wrote: Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:55 pm Yeah the Mizu is one that I haven't tried to alter. I forgot about that one. It's pretty plastic... :)
And it keeps the price in a range that makes the knife a real deal.

I am one of those price sensitive customers, most of the time. I made an exception for my kono.
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