Just got my first Takeda and I'm amazed - falling down the rabbit hole?

[ckcow923]

So I just got to play with my first Takeda today - a 150mm petty from the classifieds on this very forum.

I was so excited when I got home from work and the box was in the mail! Opened it up to find the tip had a big micro (oxymoron?) chip and needed to be taken to the stones. First went to work on my Shapton 400 and it took literally 10 strokes or so for me to get a really nice tip on it. Literally one minute on both my 1000 grit glass stone and 8k kitayama and I could tell this bad boy was ready for some veg. So I went raiding and started whacking up any and every soft veg I could find - onions, jalapenos, shallots, garlic, etc - this knife just breezes right through them.

I'm a professional in a very high volume kitchen in New Orleans. On a daily basis I'm cutting a julienne of 40 lb's of onions or slicing up 50 bell peppers - and that's one project out of the many rigors my knives go through on the daily. I've got the tools to do the job - Harukaze 240, Koishi 210 - these knives hold their own through the trials and tribulations of the kitchen... but they don't take near the edge that this little Takeda took right away on my stone... And held through a decent amount of product.

So my question is... Am I just in a honeymoon stage, or should I bow down to greatness and begin to understand the power of Takeda and his steel?

[ChipB]

I'm just a home cook, but like you, when a knife is butter on the stones and takes a silky edge, it goes a long way in my estimation of the blade. I sharpen using an Edge Pro, so ease on the stones is a big deal for me as the jig probably takes 5x longer than hand sharpening per knife.
I also get pretty hot and bothered with new purchases and need to temper my enthusiasm until I can run some side-by-sides with knives I'm very familiar with and have had the chance to take the new knife through a modest progression on the stones at least one or two more times (can take a while to hit that point as a home cook with a lot of knives). But hey, if the thing performs, the style resonates, the edge holds up and you don't have to take too much steel off too often, then it may be time start kissing the ring!

[Robstreperous]

Hey. I really enjoy his knives. His food release is outstanding and the way he grinds his blade and edge adds something I haven't found with other makers.

Something to bear in mind when you sharpen is he uses an extremely flat edge angle. It's easy to add a secondary edge angle if you're not mindful.

In fact that's exactly what I did a while back and the knife's performance suffered.

I was lucky enough to show it to Takeda-san himself a while back and he fixed it for me and showed me the technique he likes to use on his knives. See the video below. Note how flat the stone is on the edge. And... yes.... he still uses the sharpie technique.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB2A8z-WHQw

[Gregory27]

I want to hang out with him. He's just operating on a different level. "Back and forth. No need to think about sharpening." One of his knives is definitely next on the wishlist.

[ChefKnivesToGo]

I'm glad you like the knife. He does great work.

Shosui has a weakness for champaign. We're going to have a little dinner party in May when I'm in Kobe. He said he has some friends that own a good restaurant there so it should be fun.

He was one of the first small blacksmiths from Japan that we started doing business with. Visiting his workshop in Niimi was quite an experience a few years ago.

[Radar53]

yes, I know the feeling of getting one of his knives. My wife gave me a Takeda 210 AS iron-clad gyuto for Christmas and it's just such a neat implement. Rustic, different, sharp, effective. Takeda-san strikes me a being a bit "different", maybe putting a more traditional application on modern materials and his own sharpening philosophy, all of which I love. I see he finishes with at least one natural stone, presumably to get the kasumi-like effect?

As a home cook, with a number of knives in rotation, I haven't needed to sharpen it yet. @ChipB I'm planning to use a spare, cut down, EdgePro stone-arm as the stone holder and this means that its safe and I have a really good selection of stones at my disposal. Amongst these, I have some Nubatama stones (1k, 5k & 10k), which I have used for kasumi finishes on other knives, so I'm hoping that these will do the job. For now I'll just have to wait & see.

[ChipB]

Hey. I really enjoy his knives. His food release is outstanding and the way he grinds his blade and edge adds something I haven't found with other makers.

Something to bear in mind when you sharpen is he uses an extremely flat edge angle. It's easy to add a secondary edge angle if you're not mindful.

In fact that's exactly what I did a while back and the knife's performance suffered.

I was lucky enough to show it to Takeda-san himself a while back and he fixed it for me and showed me the technique he likes to use on his knives. See the video below. Note how flat the stone is on the edge. And... yes.... he still uses the sharpie technique.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB2A8z-WHQw

Rob, you almost convinced me to buy a Takeda on a number of occasions! Along with the KS, Sukenari and Hinoura, Takeda remains on the list of knives I really want to check out at some point (at least the Sasanoha pattern anyway. I like my knives on lower end of the height spectrum )

@Rader, that's an interesting set up using the EP arm as a holder but freehanding. I know you get some good use out of your knives, so if it hasn't required a new edge, that definitely says something.

Undeniably these are some of the most unique and beloved knives out there. One day I'll get my hands on one. Really digging my Harner nakiri right now, so who knows, maybe there is hope for me with knives taller than 52mm after all.

[Kit Craft]

Takeda is on my list too but I will probably have to go used because I want iron cladding and an odd size, lol.

[Barashka]

I'm genuinely interested in getting a takeda eventually, but I wonder if it's worth going for the super tall ones (60mm+) ... seems no one makes knives that tall, but takeda does, so there's something to it?

[salemj]

I think there is something to it (the tall ones), but I haven't owned one. I bought a sasanoha and enjoyed owning it. I opted to sell it a bit ago because I just didn't use it for a large variety of tasks.

I don't regret buying it at all. It was great to experience, and it is a great knife. I think the taller knives must be prep monsters in a pro environment, and I still wonder if what I really want is a Takeda petty. I didn't really have any complaints about mine—it was a great knife, and it undoubtedly displayed the absolute expertise of Takeda's shop in every respect. It definitely set the standard for me in regards to AS treatment, and I still feel like it was probably a better treatment than my Ikeda, even though the Ikeda treatment is more manageable and more forgiving in some ways. It is probably the closest thing I've experienced to the heat treatment of a Nubatama, actually, but it isn't quite as extreme.

I don't think it is honeymoon. But I also don't think you should expect a larger Takeda to become your go-to necessarily. It could, but it also could not. There's more to a knife than an edge, as you know! So if you connect with it in other ways, the edge will never hold you back, but if you don't for whatever reason, I'm not sure the edge will make up for other preference short-comings.

[ckcow923]

I'm genuinely interested in getting a takeda eventually, but I wonder if it's worth going for the super tall ones (60mm+) ... seems no one makes knives that tall, but takeda does, so there's something to it?

It really depends on if that tall profile fits into your style. I got to get my hands on a lot of his knives at my local knife shop (shameless plug - Coutelier here in New Orleans knows their stuff!) and what's so unique about a lot of his knives is how tall and light they are at the same time. The height of some of his stuff is really attractive if you are into it because they are super light and almost feel like a new breed of knives.

For me, when I'm working with softer veg, I love to be able to push chop/slice with a knife that has good retention, doesn't wedge, offers good food separation and just flies through product. His gyoto/bunka/petty's around 210 and under don't really feel substantial enough to handle really tough veg (root veg, tubers, this kind of stuff - they might be able to handle it, but it just doesn't feel like they are made for it) but I think I'm hooked on these knives for softer veg and tasks like brunoise or small dicing other vegetables.

[ckcow923]

I think there is something to it (the tall ones), but I haven't owned one. I bought a sasanoha and enjoyed owning it. I opted to sell it a bit ago because I just didn't use it for a large variety of tasks.

I don't regret buying it at all. It was great to experience, and it is a great knife. I think the taller knives must be prep monsters in a pro environment, and I still wonder if what I really want is a Takeda petty. I didn't really have any complaints about mine—it was a great knife, and it undoubtedly displayed the absolute expertise of Takeda's shop in every respect. It definitely set the standard for me in regards to AS treatment, and I still feel like it was probably a better treatment than my Ikeda, even though the Ikeda treatment is more manageable and more forgiving in some ways. It is probably the closest thing I've experienced to the heat treatment of a Nubatama, actually, but it isn't quite as extreme.

I don't think it is honeymoon. But I also don't think you should expect a larger Takeda to become your go-to necessarily. It could, but it also could not. There's more to a knife than an edge, as you know! So if you connect with it in other ways, the edge will never hold you back, but if you don't for whatever reason, I'm not sure the edge will make up for other preference short-comings.

For sure. I love this petty for doing a brunoise of shallots and appreciate the edge it's showing off, but also have a feeling that his larger blades, while more substantial, won't be able to withstand the real labors I need from it without having to really take care of it. In other words, I don't think I'll be calling these knives workhorse knives even if they hold an edge in the pro environment.

[milkbaby]

Everybody is different, i know one cook that uses his Takeda at work without problem.

I have a tall (~65mm) 240mm length Takeda gyuto and really like it, but it may not be for everybody. There is a bit of a disconnect between the size and the weight that psychologically it feels a little bit like a toy in hand.

[Bensbites]

There is a bit of a disconnect between the size and the weight that psychologically it feels a little bit like a toy in hand.

After playing with CCKs and an artifex fanatic I am starting to feel that way about my short light knives.

[Lepus]

I use my Takeda at work without issues. It doesn't struggle at all.

[ckcow923]

I use my Takeda at work without issues. It doesn't struggle at all.

Curious as to which knife of his and what you principally use it for. Might be my next purchase

[Lepus]

I have a medium Sasanoha. It's oversized, about 225mm, and really up for just about anything. If I expect to do a lot of knifework any given day it is my foremost option. I don't use it on a line, but it would do fine there if you're comfortable taking nice knives dangerous places.