shevitz wrote: ↑Tue May 01, 2018 4:59 pm
After using the knife for a week, my initial assessment really hasn't changed. The santoku is a ridiculously sharp beast and the profile makes it authentic but not really Japanese. I'm really OK with that. I think a flatter profile would be more familiar but that is a judgement call. It's great as is for pull cutting and rocking.
The two pieces of constructive criticism I have are:
1) I agree to dump the varnish and just leave it raw wood. The handle is really comfortable but the current finish is really rough and only warrants being removed. If it were raw wood, light sanding plus oil or oil varnish would allow us to customize it much easier and turn it into something fully acceptable easier. Most JKnives I have bought have been unfinished so this is familiar.
2) No else has mentioned this, but... have the smith finish or profile on something finer than a 120 or 80 or whatever grit wheel he uses, not much, maybe a 220. Hell buy him one if you have to. Rustic is one thing, but there are scratches in the road bed that are impossible to take out because they are too deep. Finishing to a slightly higher grit would change all that and then you would have a knife that could be fixed up to whatever level you wanted. Then it would be an absolute steal. I don't care about the edge, I care about the blade road.
The blade road on the nakiri I have doesn't seem nearly as rough as you described on your santoku Danny.
I think I'd like to have another, one to keep and use in it's original archaic state and one to really work over to see exactly what I could make of it.
If God wanted me to be a vegetarian he wouldn't have made animals taste so good.
I'd be curious to know if all were as rough as mine. I spent 2 hours with 80 grit sandpaper wrapped around a cork and other harder things working on the blade road. I was ultimately unsuccessful at getting all the scratches out. I have some divots in the metal where I tried to work out the deeper scratches. I still worked up the grades anyway to see what it would look like. Basically for my knife it would take a motorized regrind, and that wasn't my goal.
FWIW, I made 8lbs of sauerkraut tonight, 4 cabbages. I used my Dao Vua. It was a monster. Despite being a 170 and usually opting for a 240 to cut cabbage, it did an admirable job. Starting on the far side of the cabbage using a draw cut followed by a rock I was able to easily process like a much larger knife. I actually believe is my best cutter. The thin grind with the steep angle seems to kick butt. So far, the edge retention is fully acceptable. I stropped on horse shell before the session and the edge is as sharp or sharper than any I have felt.
shevitz wrote: ↑Wed May 02, 2018 9:48 am
It's not the edge, it's the blade road. Is he grinding the knives with a stone?
Mine is pretty wavy for sure but not terrible. I was figuring on polishing it up and figured I would try to get it as flat as possible while working it to a polish.
We're talking about little barefoot dude making knives in a hut in the middle of the jungle in Vietnam, so to speak . I think you guys are expecting a little bit much.
I think this knife rocks for what it is and where it comes from!
If God wanted me to be a vegetarian he wouldn't have made animals taste so good.
I respectfully disagree. I think an extra 5 to 10 minutes with the right tool (and not an expensive one at that) would raise the potential of this knife dramatically. All I want is no deep scratches in the road bed. Given how long it takes to make a knife, I hardly think that is too much to ask. I'm not asking for a high grit or mirror finish, just leave it with scratches that I can take out.
Jeff B wrote: ↑Wed May 02, 2018 1:54 pm
We're talking about little barefoot dude making knives in a hut in the middle of the jungle in Vietnam, so to speak . I think you guys are expecting a little bit much.
I think this knife rocks for what it is and where it comes from!
+1
Shevitz, did you see this pics....the man cranked out a heckuva knife at a heckuva price point with very little in terms of resources. Sure he may be able to make it better with better tools, but he does not have better tools or likely the money for a 40 dollar stone to remove course scratches.
Think of the deep scratches more as food release mechanisms.
shevitz wrote: ↑Wed May 02, 2018 8:52 pm
I respectfully disagree. I think an extra 5 to 10 minutes with the right tool (and not an expensive one at that) would raise the potential of this knife dramatically. All I want is no deep scratches in the road bed. Given how long it takes to make a knife, I hardly think that is too much to ask. I'm not asking for a high grit or mirror finish, just leave it with scratches that I can take out.
I doubt it's like he can just run out to WoodCrafters and buy a belt sander just to make his blade roads a little nicer for a $30 knife. Just look at the handles, I doubt he has access to nice tools or he would already have them and be making nicer knives. Looks like he's probably already doing the best he can with what he has to work with.
If God wanted me to be a vegetarian he wouldn't have made animals taste so good.
Bob Z wrote: ↑Wed May 02, 2018 9:19 pm
Since this was a group purchase how bout we do a group contribution to buy him a stone or two? Add it to the next knife price or something.
I would pitch in.
I would love to be able to get these knives in the hands of some of my employees and coworkers who can sharpen. I think a small upgrade from where they are now would make a world of difference. I have had a few people ask me to order one for them.
The santoku is as rustic as I've ever seen and tons of character..,
mine has deep scratches on the blade road (but I don't mind).. had an overgrind (which I fixed), a sticky varnish (which I mostly sanded off), and a deceptively uneven yet sharp edge (which I sharpened to 6k).
I don't know a lot about wood, but does anyone think that maybe the heavy lacquer is there because he's working in such a humid environment and wants to make sure that the handle is protected (doesn't rot or whatever)?
I suspect the knives are made as they are because that is how people have accepted his knives in the past and that requests to refine the blade road or do the handles differently could be managed. As coarse as that blade road is it could be refined with something as simple as an angle grinder. But refining the blade road would by necessity jack up the price and Mark sold the first run to us at cost, so they will be more going up no matter what. A Masutani is only $65 and a CCK is $80.
The blade road was worse on my santoku than on the nakiri. I took them both to a 140 diamond plate to try to get the scratches and the wavy edge out. The nakiri I was mostly successful at accomplishing the goal. There are still scratches that will hopefully get worked out thru thinning in the future. The santoku I have up on. I would have to break the belt sander out of storage to clean it up. Plus the edge on mine came as a smiling face (ie. Way to much belly from midpoint to heel and midpoint to tip). It felt like I was sharpening an ulu knife.
Both knives took a great edge. I loved the nakiri and will be keeping it. The santoku will be going to a friend that likes to rock chop after I finish cleaning up the handle and touch up the edge.
I used both knives this weekend glamping with a group of 12 people that I cooked 3 meals a day for. The edges held up to the abuse for the trip. I used plastic cutting boards and was giving them knives skill lessons as I peeped the food. So lots of slamming into the plastic cutting boards. After the outing the edges need a quick pass on my kitty 8k now that I'm home.
Nmiller21k wrote: ↑Thu May 03, 2018 7:54 am
If we're going to group buy him something.
I say we ask him what piece of equipment is his biggest need, and try to source something reasonable.
If we're going to ask him to make a better knife, we'd better be willing to help support and fund it.
Nmiller21k wrote: ↑Thu May 03, 2018 7:54 am
If we're going to group buy him something.
I say we ask him what piece of equipment is his biggest need, and try to source something reasonable.
If we're going to ask him to make a better knife, we'd better be willing to help support and fund it.
I like this point as well. If I had to guess, he is doing the knife grinding on rotating machinery. It's just too much work for me to imagine him turning out this many knives grinding the blade roads on stones by hand. Whatever he currently has, buy him (if he doesn't already have one) a slightly finer wheel, again say a 220. After his first pass on all the knives, have him do a second pass with the finer wheel. It shouldn't take long.
I'm wondering if there is something about the santoku grind that gives deeper scratches. Nakiris were sold out before I got my santoku, so I can't compare.
Ok, he asked me if I could give him opinions on the knives both good and bad.
To summarize this thread I'm going to tell him:
The Good:
Price
Thin edges
Excellent cutting ability especially after sharpening
Authentic
The blacksmith and the pictures and videos are a big plus
What could be improved:
Deep scratches on the blade road
Laquer on the handles could be removed and oiled/waxed instead.
Wrap in newspaper sheaths to avoid rusting in transit (We took care of most of this before we shipped to you guys)
I don't want to mess with profiles for now. We can revisit this.
I don't think fixing the blade road issue would cost that much money. If he doesn't already have the capability, I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is. Mark, if you set up a "help the smith" purchase item like a gofundme, I would contribute.
I don't know why I didn't think of this before, but I looked at the photos again. The first photo shows the grinder. One of the videos shows him using the grinder. We are talking about one grinding wheel. After the first pass, have him change out the wheel to a finer one. Take a second pass. I bet it would take 1 minute per knife.
I checked on Northern tool. An 8"x1" fine grinding wheel is $25. I think what this guy does is really cool and would love to help him out. Despite my apparent bitching, I really like the potential of the knife, and it wouldn't take much to improve it to the next level. I like the rustic. Just not on the blade road.
. I think you guys are expecting a little bit much.
