Forced Patina

For questions/topics that don't fit into the other, more specific forums.
jason
Posts: 395
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:01 am
Been thanked: 2 times

Forced Patina

Post by jason »

I usually use a knife that's made by sandwiching carbon steel between stainless steel and I just let it patina naturally through normal use of cutting whatever needs cutting. I've started using a knife that's completely carbon steel and I'm not so keen of look of the patina through normal use. So I'm interested to hear how people force a patina in a controlled fashion. I'm looking for an even all over tan. Please give details of the recipe of your concoction, how you apply it and for how long. Oh and pictures of the result would be great if you have it to hand.

Thanks a lot!
Last edited by jason on Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
old onion
Posts: 897
Joined: Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:09 pm
Location: N.E. Ohio
Has thanked: 14 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Forced Patina

Post by old onion »

I don't get to scientific about it but I have found the best patina for me is before I cut anything like onions,the very first thing I do is cook up a chicken and run my blade gently through the hot breast. Sometimes,that is all it takes and sometimes I just leave it sit in the breast to rest for a little while.Then pull the knife out and let it rest somewhere safe out of reach of a certain cat that like to lick chicken.After a time,I run very hot water over the blade and lightly wipe dry.I get a nice blue patina using this method.
timos
Posts: 1437
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:01 pm
Location: oxford, MA
Has thanked: 100 times
Been thanked: 133 times
Contact:

Re: Forced Patina

Post by timos »

I get a pretty stable patina using mustard. I dab it on with my finger over the whole blade. Try to get a pretty even consistency. let it sit for at least a few minutes. rinse, dry, repeat until you are happy. You can experiment with time and thickness, brands of mustard, or even other condiments you might have, a lot of them will have a variety of effects. It is kind of fun :)
Tim Johnson
Oxford, MA

“In the beginner’s mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert’s there are few”
--s. suzuki
Image
Web: http://www.timothyjohnsonknives.com
Email: tim@blackstoneknife.com
Instagram: @timostheos
Bensbites
Posts: 2588
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:42 pm
Location: Massachusetts
Has thanked: 342 times
Been thanked: 247 times
Contact:

Re: Forced Patina

Post by Bensbites »

Tim’s mustard method will work well I have done it. The main ingredient is vinager, and that is responsible for the patina.

One other method I have used is to soak a paper towel in vinegar and wrap the towel around the knife. Every five minutes I wash the knife and check for patina. Alternatively, pour a tall glass of cheap white vinegar in glass, place the knife in the glass and wait.
AlbuquerqueDan
Posts: 310
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2017 1:51 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Forced Patina

Post by AlbuquerqueDan »

timos wrote: Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:23 am I get a pretty stable patina using mustard. I dab it on with my finger over the whole blade. Try to get a pretty even consistency. let it sit for at least a few minutes. rinse, dry, repeat until you are happy. You can experiment with time and thickness, brands of mustard, or even other condiments you might have, a lot of them will have a variety of effects. It is kind of fun :)
I have one of Tim's knives with his famed mustard patinas. In my opinion, it looks great. Kinda spotty grey. It's also very stable. I've cut tons of onions with it and I couldn't notice any perceptible discoloration.

(Tim: thanks again for the knife. Great job. Although I'm not in a "laser phase" in my knife journey, I can still appreciate your craftmenship. Right now, your knife is on loan to my brother, who said it was his favorite knife in my collection).
User avatar
pd7077
Posts: 1045
Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:02 pm
Location: Bay Area, CA
Has thanked: 66 times
Been thanked: 106 times

Re: Forced Patina

Post by pd7077 »

I pretty much do what OldOnion does. Any hot protein will give you a nice blue patina, but I do find that I like the results of chicken the best. Just remember that a stable patina will still change a bit over time, especially when cutting acidic ingredients. Here are some samples of patinas I’ve gotten with protein. First two pics show how my Kato patina has changed over time.

Image
ImageImage
Image
--- Steve
User avatar
Kit Craft
Posts: 4844
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:57 pm
Location: Pennsylvania
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: Forced Patina

Post by Kit Craft »

Yeah, I do not bother forcing a patina. Not even on soft iron. Cut, wipe wet then wipe dry then cut again. After a few sessions the patina is soft but deep. It will get very stable over time and not that much time. Even something like my Misono dragon, said to be very reactive, can be left on a pile of onions while I answer the phone or collect eggs from the chickens or something. Iron cladding is the same it just takes a bit longer, for me anyway. But yeah, cutting some hot meat works well as a first start. However we eat a ton of veg so I normally just start there.
jmcnelly85
Posts: 2657
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:59 pm
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 415 times

Re: Forced Patina

Post by jmcnelly85 »

I wouldn’t stress too hard over an even finish, if you do pull it off it’ll change after use. I’ve had good results with cheap yellow mustard and sriracha, apples give 52100 a neat pinkish purple. I remember someone having good results with a bacon wrapped knife.
Gregory27
Posts: 569
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 8:31 pm
Location: Sheboygan, WI
Been thanked: 12 times

Re: Forced Patina

Post by Gregory27 »

I forced a patina on a Tojiro hairline using bacon. Basically, I fried up a batch, and, as it was cooking, frequently pulled slices out and rubbed the knife down. Made a nice, blue, natural looking patina. And I got to eat bacon. So that's a win win.
User avatar
Kit Craft
Posts: 4844
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:57 pm
Location: Pennsylvania
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: Forced Patina

Post by Kit Craft »

Gregory27 wrote: Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:34 pm I forced a patina on a Tojiro hairline using bacon. Basically, I fried up a batch, and, as it was cooking, frequently pulled slices out and rubbed the knife down. Made a nice, blue, natural looking patina. And I got to eat bacon. So that's a win win.
Aha!
Eutectic
Posts: 39
Joined: Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:56 am

Re: Forced Patina

Post by Eutectic »

Those protein forced patinas look awesome. I love the visible difference between the regions on the honyaki.
Radar53
Posts: 1855
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:44 am
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Has thanked: 354 times
Been thanked: 583 times

Re: Forced Patina

Post by Radar53 »

Must try the bacon thing sometime, but like others I generally use pork like a piece of some cheap salami. With the salami at room temperature, I heat the knife up under hot water and then cut a number of thin slices of the salami and continue to use those to rub all over the blade. Then rinse the knife off in hot water, step & repeat.

Had a bit of a bonus for my Takeda Classic fully reactive knife over Christmas. Besides doing the above I also used it to cut ham off our half leg of Christmas ham and was pretty pleased with the lovely blue outcome.
Cheers Grant

Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not going to get you!!
User avatar
Jeff B
Posts: 14741
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:59 pm
Location: Louisville, Kentucky
Has thanked: 1954 times
Been thanked: 2324 times

Re: Forced Patina

Post by Jeff B »

I've got to White steel Konos and the patina changes on them every time I use them. Have a KS that I put a forced mustard patina on and it changes every time I use it too. The patinas on my knives never have become "stable". I must say that I do love a protein patina over vinegar, much more color vs mostly shades of grey.
If God wanted me to be a vegetarian he wouldn't have made animals taste so good.
User avatar
Kit Craft
Posts: 4844
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:57 pm
Location: Pennsylvania
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: Forced Patina

Post by Kit Craft »

Jeff B wrote: Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:10 pm I've got to White steel Konos and the patina changes on them every time I use them. Have a KS that I put a forced mustard patina on and it changes every time I use it too. The patinas on my knives never have become "stable". I must say that I do love a protein patina over vinegar, much more color vs mostly shades of grey.
When I refer to a stable patina I do not mean that it won't evolve so much as I mean it won't drag nasty purple/brown/black etc goo when used and it won't rust just by sitting on the board a few minutes while I do something else. However I must say my most stable patina is probably on my FKH. It is a dull grey and it never changes, never.
User avatar
Jeff B
Posts: 14741
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:59 pm
Location: Louisville, Kentucky
Has thanked: 1954 times
Been thanked: 2324 times

Re: Forced Patina

Post by Jeff B »

Well, patinas change with each use so forcing a "pattern" won't do you a lot of good, all I was getting at.
If God wanted me to be a vegetarian he wouldn't have made animals taste so good.
User avatar
Kit Craft
Posts: 4844
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:57 pm
Location: Pennsylvania
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: Forced Patina

Post by Kit Craft »

Jeff B wrote: Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:23 pm Well, patinas change with each use so forcing a "pattern" won't do you a lot of good, all I was getting at.
Right. I never thought of that.
Bensbites
Posts: 2588
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 7:42 pm
Location: Massachusetts
Has thanked: 342 times
Been thanked: 247 times
Contact:

Re: Forced Patina

Post by Bensbites »

I was just looking @j David’s bone chopper rehab thread

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=5756

That patina is deep, I love the way it looks. I may try something similar on a 210 that was cheap and has already been highly modified.

I have even seen posts like this one on darkening SS.
http://dcknives.blogspot.com/p/acid-etc ... l.html?m=1
jason
Posts: 395
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:01 am
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Forced Patina

Post by jason »

Wow thanks for all the suggestions everyone. I'm not sure what I will try first but it seems things with something acidic or warm proteins seems like a common theme from what I gather. I usually end up with a grey patina with general and it seems maybe trying some chicken will give a blue patina so may give that ago. Condiments I have in the flat so may give that a go. I should try a few things. Or if interest what do i do to remove it?
User avatar
Jeff B
Posts: 14741
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:59 pm
Location: Louisville, Kentucky
Has thanked: 1954 times
Been thanked: 2324 times

Re: Forced Patina

Post by Jeff B »

Scrub with Bar Keeper's Friend and then clean with baking soda or use any type of metal polish you have handy to remove a patina.
If God wanted me to be a vegetarian he wouldn't have made animals taste so good.
ChipB
Posts: 307
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:26 pm
Location: New York City
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Forced Patina

Post by ChipB »

If you can search the old forum, you might get a kick out of the experimentation I did on a Masakage Shimo (ultra reactive) and a Shigefusa Kasumi (also fairly reactive). I had a theory that if I heated up a blade in boiling water, and exposed it to certain amino acids (chicken breast was my protein of choice), I could force a very cool blue patina that would hold up over time. I went so far as to bifurcate two chicken breasts and wrap them around a warmed knife in 20 minute cycles. It was pretty silly.

I tend to let things develop and remove the patina as needed using a Korin Cleaning cloth with Tsubaki oil (the cloth works 10x better with oil). That said, there are abrasives in the cloth, albeit more mild than some other alternatives, that will eventually mute any kind of differentiated polish or finish over time. That will happen no matter what unless you are skilled enough with j-nats to maintain a particular kasumi finish etc. Even then, metal is still getting removed, even though the original aesthetic is maintained.
Post Reply