Over Compensating

[loco_food_guy]

Kit or perhaps just buy a can opener

You would think that would be obvious but it isn't for some. Some people use knives as screwdrivers too.

Your not supposed to do that? Thats mainly what I use my Masamoto KS Gyuto for.

[Jeff B]

Well it's obvious that this thread has finally run it's course and has derailed.

[mauichef]

Well it's obvious that this thread has finally run it's course and has derailed.

Yes...about 2 pages ago
Seems to be a trend lately.

[Cutuu]

My posts are on the 3rd page we relevant/on track imo. This one however is questionable at best

[loco_food_guy]

Only so many ways we can all say the exact same thing before we start talking about screwdrivers....

[ButlerHoosierChef]

Cheers folks I'd love a screwdriver!
Let's see how far we can really derail this! Haha.

[Cutuu]

I would like to hear from the op again. Did this help still all?

[Kit Craft]

Well it's obvious that this thread has finally run it's course and has derailed.

Yes...about 2 pages ago
Seems to be a trend lately.

I have been on forums, many different type, for as long as I can remember and I am not so sure that derailing is a trend so much as it is nature. These knife forums, all of them, are very tame compared to some other forums from some of my other hobbies.

[Lepus]

I would like to hear from the op again. Did this help still all?

I don't really think this thread did him many favors, least of all seeing how amazingly off course it went multiple times. I would be surprised if he came back.

[Cutuu]

I would like to hear from the op again. Did this help still all?

I don't really think this thread did him many favors, least of all seeing how amazingly off course it went multiple times. I would be surprised if he came back.

I reread this thread some and his 3 posts before posting. There is two intents the op may of had. One is a true question, which i will try to summarize: are these knives worth the money, are they, perhaps "simply beautiful," are they so much better than regular knives that a kitchen might provide or have found in them, and most importantly do they make you cook better.

The other intent was perhaps to argue that these knives are really not related to making you a better cook/chef and really benefit merely as an artistic hobby, and perhaps don't even serve much in the form of functionality improvement as tools compared to the one's he was familiar with.

If the post was intended as a question there was 2 pages of insight given with rather clear and concise examples of these are tools that relate to both joy, and efficiency relating to cooking in both a pro and home environment. Never, in this thread or I do believe in any other thread that I've come across, was it argued or portrayed as these knives make you into a chef or great cook. I think every single person on this thread would find that laughable. I could hand over every single knive i own to my wife and use a miracle blade and cook her under the table.

So in a sense, if his simply argument was that these knives do not turn you into a great chef/cook magically upon purchase or are a viable substitute for learning culinary techniques and had left it at that alone, he would of got a sea of responses involving +1s and overwhelmingly agreeable responses. But he decided to include the concept of the knives lacking practicality in a pro kitchen and, perhaps, inferring that they are somewhat pointless beyond artistry.

Also, the concept of admitting there is an aspect of hobby collecting that happens here that can surpass the mere practicality of the knives as tools does occur, but not negate the practicality of the tools themselves. The concept of some knives being collected as art pieces was also touched on. But the whole thing can not be simply said that all these knives are just flashy art pieces, rather than, quality tools related to the culinary arts.

So I will not say that the overall thread did not answer either/both his question and argument. I also believe that the thread may have partly derailed because of overwhelmingly solid arguments/answers providing myriads of examples, metaphors, and perspectives to a question/argument that falls flat of furthering conversation with any sort of strong/new points. So the feed was coming up in new posts, because people were probably interested but after, reading it they may have been like there is nothing more to add.Then, perhaps, they may have gotten distracted and derailed. That does not mean that the question was not answered or the argument refuted thoughtfully.

[Lepus]

You can win an argument or be correct and simultaneously fail to convince someone. As right as we may be I don't think we did a good job convincing him.

[loco_food_guy]

You can win an argument or be correct and simultaneously fail to convince someone. As right as we may be I don't think we did a good job convincing him.

I don't think it was our responsibility to convince him. I have good friends that are very happy going out to a nice dinner at Arby's (no disrespect meant to those that love Arby's). They cant understand how or why anyone could spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on a single dinner. I can! I am passionate about food and love every aspect of it and gain extreme satisfaction eating a great meal. I would say that if you are passionate about anything in life to the point that you can see the beauty in something that others may not, then it shouldn't be something that needs convincing. If you are someone that doesn't experience passion like that about anything, then no level or argument will be helpful convincing them.

[Cutuu]

You can win an argument or be correct and simultaneously fail to convince someone. As right as we may be I don't think we did a good job convincing him.

If that's what you mean, major +1. I just didn't want it to seem as though some disservice was done to him. I believe his question/argument was answered quite thoroughly. Also there are times when you can refuse the option to be swayed.

[Kit Craft]

You can win an argument or be correct and simultaneously fail to convince someone. As right as we may be I don't think we did a good job convincing him.

I don't think it was our responsibility to convince him. I have good friends that are very happy going out to a nice dinner at Arby's (no disrespect meant to those that love Arby's). They cant understand how or why anyone could spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on a single dinner. I can! I am passionate about food and love every aspect of it and gain extreme satisfaction eating a great meal. I would say that if you are passionate about anything in life to the point that you can see the beauty in something that others may not, then it shouldn't be something that needs convincing. If you are someone that doesn't experience passion like that about anything, then no level or argument will be helpful convincing them.

I just had Arby's for lunch. I am totally into food, more or less all of it. Home cooked, diner, fine dining, fast food and you name it. I like food, I like to taste new things, I like cook and I like to eat.

Anyway, as for the Op I am not sure he was looking to be 'convinced' of anything. Are knives looked at here from a hobbyist perspective and akin to art? Well, that is not a simple yes or no answer and is opinion based. Can you prep food just fine with cheap knife that is sharp, yes. That is no kind of question it is common sense. But can you prep food more efficiently with a more well made knife, yes I think you can. I don't think it needs be any more complex than that...

[Jeff B]

I'm with Hoosier, a screwdriver sounds pretty good right now, may even get hammered! See what i did right there...wasn't it cool!

So do you put drinking glasses rightside up or upside down when putting them in the cabinet?

[Nmiller21k]

Glasses upside down

And yes better knives make cooking more enjoyable
And easier

[Jeff B]

Glasses upside down

And yes better knives make cooking more enjoyable
And easier

Exactly! My wife and all her family put right side up! All my family do it the right way.

And yes, better knives does make cooking more enjoyable and easier! Thanks Nick!

[Nmiller21k]

You noticed the quality of construction, steel, heat treat etc... when you start processing volume.
That Kanehiro AS? Yeah it's a pretty penny over a Wustof or a Vic, but... you won't have to take it to a honing rod every 30 minutes while you're machine gunning julienne onions either.

[Lepus]

I don't think it was our responsibility to convince him.

It was not my responsibility to convince OP, but it would have been my pleasure.

That guy came here with a reasonable question. We might have been able to convince him to try a decent knife, or at least to sharpen better. He can now say with some validity that he went on a fine knife forum and people bombarded him when he asked about cheaper knives.

I am not going to suggest he got as much as possible from this thread, but I am not his peer. I am not at all responsible for his behavior, nor can I make him consider what we say. He might have stuck his head in the sand even if we had conducted ourselves like Aristotle. I am part of this peer group.

Anyone who didn't feel inclined to try to convince OP I assume posted because they thought he was wrong. If anyone on here did not grow up in the bosom of the internet the way I did, I did the research and there are for your purposes infinite people online who are wrong. There is no judge to award points for correcting them, so don't feel compelled. If anyone wanted him to go away, it's better for all parties to message Ray or Mark and let the mod team decide whether or not to ban him.

None of this has anything to do with knives and everything to do with dealing with people, particularly online. Whether he was wrong isn't salient. I am still dwelling on that thread late last night that Ray had to step in and stop: no one said anything they couldn't somehow back up, but it ended up impressively ugly- and I would like not to hear anything else about that thread here, because it was cancerous, but it did showcase how that sort of melee can evolve. This forum has historically been extremely good about being an open and positive environment. I have been stridently, blatantly wrong here and been dealt with well. That is why I am active here, and I would like to see it get better.

[Cutuu]

@Lepus, I am really trying to look at the thread and honestly challenge myself to see, if there was some sort of harsh outlash at the question and a mistreatment of the op. I'm just honestly not seeing it. Perhaps, there could of been more science things like defining hrc, talking about grinds, etc. In hindsight, perhaps, that may have been a better approach. I think a lot of people were just trying to get to the basics of the question and it didn't progress deeper than that. Perhaps, the op didn't know how to ask about these deeper things that might of shed light into the subject, and in the future maybe speaking of these things would have been better. I think everyone can at least somewhat sympathize with the op, since no one is born with a Japanese knife in their mouth. Perhaps, it came off as bombarding because so many people took similar approaches to answering the question. The only reason that I'm posting is because, it sincerely bothered me that you perceived it this way and that, perhaps, he did also, It caused me to reflect. I'm not sure if i was a part of the other thread that you are referring to. It doesn't come to mind. In the military we do AARs, which are after action reviews. It still good to look at things and see how we could do things better, but I, personally, didn't feel that the general responses were malicious, snarky etc.