What’s the vintage Swedish Kono?

For questions/topics that don't fit into the other, more specific forums.
Chefspence
Posts: 2504
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:03 pm
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 32 times

What’s the vintage Swedish Kono?

Post by Chefspence »

Can anyone enlighten me?
salemj
Posts: 3709
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:27 pm
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Has thanked: 197 times
Been thanked: 528 times

Re: What’s the vintage Swedish Kono?

Post by salemj »

There's been a few pictures on the Konosuke intagram page. Essentially, it is a Fujiyama-style gyuto made with old batch Swedish carbon steel; in this case, they are putting extra attention into a particular type of natural stone finish, which means it will probably be even more expensive than just the premiere steel.

Honestly, unless you are really into collector's items, I'm not sure this one is worth too much effort: the cost premium is not necessarily for performance, and the availability is going to be very limited. Since I already own several Konosukes, I am curious and may try for one, but only if they come in under 700, which is probably unlikely. It will be one hell of a knife, no doubt...
~Joe

Comments: I'm short, a home cook, prefer lighter, thinner blades, and own mostly Konosukes but have used over a dozen brands.
Chefspence
Posts: 2504
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:03 pm
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 32 times

Re: What’s the vintage Swedish Kono?

Post by Chefspence »

I see. Thank you
ButlerHoosierChef
Posts: 722
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:34 pm
Location: Greenfield Indiana
Has thanked: 68 times
Been thanked: 31 times

Re: What’s the vintage Swedish Kono?

Post by ButlerHoosierChef »

When do you think we might be expecting them Mark? Thank you in advance!
User avatar
Jeff B
Posts: 14741
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:59 pm
Location: Louisville, Kentucky
Has thanked: 1954 times
Been thanked: 2324 times

Re: What’s the vintage Swedish Kono?

Post by Jeff B »

Have you heard of the Togo Reigo, made by the the Fujiyama blacksmith and Sharpener? That's what it is. These knives will sell out in seconds.
If God wanted me to be a vegetarian he wouldn't have made animals taste so good.
appleton
Posts: 83
Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2018 10:10 am
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: What’s the vintage Swedish Kono?

Post by appleton »

Kosuke wrote: Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:51 am Let me tell you about the Vintage Swedish Carbon knives.


=====================================================================================================
We have to tell you that we'll provide them only from Tosho knife arts from the second batch.

From CKTG, we'll think about the new material (should be Blue Super or something like that) with the special finish.
=====================================================================================================


About 5 - 6 years ago when we release the first Vintage Swedish Carbon knives from Tosho knife arts, we've talked about the exclusiveness from them.

As time goes by and with the special finish by the Fujiyama sharpener, I was confused about that and released the first batch from both Tosho and CKTG by mistake.

Now I remember and I think we should proceed the exclusiveness again.
(I've already talked with Mark about this)


I'm so sorry about the problem..

I'm happy if you can understand.
I wasn't sure if it is appropriate to put this in the Konosuke thread, so I'm tossing it here. I was uncertain of Kosuke's phrasing, and didn't want to accidentally insult him or Mark.

For clarification, was Kosuke's most recent batch sent to both CKTG and to Tosho?

Also, if the above batch was sent to both parties, I was wondering if Vintage Swedish Carbon knives will be offered on the site, or will they be exclusive to select Forumites and customers?
salemj
Posts: 3709
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:27 pm
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Has thanked: 197 times
Been thanked: 528 times

Re: What’s the vintage Swedish Kono?

Post by salemj »

appleton wrote: Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:04 am
Also, if the above batch was sent to both parties, I was wondering if Vintage Swedish Carbon knives will be offered on the site, or will they be exclusive to select Forumites and customers?
If Mark receives a blade, it sounds like it would be a single blade, and it would go on the website, but my understanding is that Kosuke is reserving the Swedish carbon for Tosho and is considering doing a similar knife in another steel (like AS) for Mark later on with the same craftsmen. These are not batch items; as individual items, they usually sell within 5 minutes of posting (or less). Unless you are really good with the website and really familiar with how Mark posts things, your chances of getting one are a fraction of a percent.

Even if Tosho receives all of the blades, it would likely be a batch of six or less over time. Tosho is a bit different: the prices will be high (and will be sold from Canada), so this may deter some buyers. The first time around, people knew less about the product and one of the knives actually sat for several days before selling—this was at a time when "normal" Fujiyamas would often sell out within minutes on Mark's site. This time, I'd expect the knives to sell out within 24 hours, and some of them will likely be pre-sold privately to local customers before being posted online—but that last part is total speculation.
~Joe

Comments: I'm short, a home cook, prefer lighter, thinner blades, and own mostly Konosukes but have used over a dozen brands.
ButlerHoosierChef
Posts: 722
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:34 pm
Location: Greenfield Indiana
Has thanked: 68 times
Been thanked: 31 times

Re: What’s the vintage Swedish Kono?

Post by ButlerHoosierChef »

That was my thinking that they weren't even going to be sent here just to Tosho. It also does seems like Tosho is much more expensive. They hava some nice knives but those knives seem like collectors knives now. Mark on the other hand looks like he presents us with new up and coming knife makers at affordable prices before they become famous. Gives us budget friendly knives! It sure would be nice though to be able to at least have a chance to get my hands on one. O well...will keep trying. Haha.
Last edited by ButlerHoosierChef on Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
mauichef
Posts: 3974
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:10 pm
Location: Boca Chica, Panama
Has thanked: 675 times
Been thanked: 1021 times
Contact:

Re: What’s the vintage Swedish Kono?

Post by mauichef »

That perfectly sums it up Joe.
I was the fortunate beneficiary of that last knife not selling!
One thing is for sure. Now we can see the incredible time and effort that Kosuke and Mark devote to even a few blades. These are extremely limited numbers being discussed. 2 or 3 maybe.
The work to get these out has to far exceed the rewards. Just reading about the ongoing HM problems is a good indication of how doggedly they pursue a dream.
This is one reason that Konosuke is, hands down, my favorite brand.
We are so fortunate to have the opportunity to play in this sandbox.
I am anxious to hear about the forthcoming CKTG exclusive product being discussed.
ButlerHoosierChef
Posts: 722
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:34 pm
Location: Greenfield Indiana
Has thanked: 68 times
Been thanked: 31 times

Re: What’s the vintage Swedish Kono?

Post by ButlerHoosierChef »

Me as well Maui! After reading about the process that goes into procuring the bladesmith sharpener etc and how you must be polite and patient it seems like a much different world. It gives you incite into the process and makes you respect what Mark and Kosuke do for us as forum members that much more.
User avatar
Jeff B
Posts: 14741
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:59 pm
Location: Louisville, Kentucky
Has thanked: 1954 times
Been thanked: 2324 times

Re: What’s the vintage Swedish Kono?

Post by Jeff B »

I will be another that will be waiting patiently waiting to see what Mark and Konosuke put together for CKTG now that the Vintage Swedish Carbons will go to Tosho. And they will sell out in minutes this time, you won't see one sit there for a couple days again.
If God wanted me to be a vegetarian he wouldn't have made animals taste so good.
Omega
Posts: 246
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2017 4:03 am
Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 53 times

Re: What’s the vintage Swedish Kono?

Post by Omega »

The Vintage Swedish knives, as people have already pointed out, are the Togo Reigo blades that have been getting some buzz.

I think the first batch of these came out in 2014, all from Tosho Knife Arts in Canada. They had the standard finish of the Blue steel Fujiyama (shinogi line), but had this special core steel. The reason for it's exclusivity to Tosho (and this is as I understand it- 100% willing to be being corrected) is because of Ivan's involvement with Konosuke in Japan. Ivan is one of the co-owners of Tosho Knife Arts, along with Olivia Go. Ivan actually has moved to Japan, and works directly with Kosuke on some things. During his time in Japan, in visiting with some of the craftsmen, they found an old stash of metal that a Blacksmith's Father had purchased. He (the Blacksmith) believed it to be a forgotten stash of 'Togo Reigo', but couldn't find his father's paperwork verifying this.

Kosuke had the metal tested, and the results came back essentially verifying it as true Togo Reigo. Anecdotally, both the Fujiyama Blacksmith AND Sharpener have said, as they've worked with the steel, that it feels like they remember Togo Reigo feeling.
This is completely unconfirmed- but that is my guess as to why they are marketed as 'Vintage Swedish' steel, as opposed to Togo Reigo; because, while they have secondary confirmation of what it is, without the original receipt, it's just safer to not market it as such. Again, this line is 100% my personal guessing on the subject, and is not the official word from anyone.

So after the initial run of Togo Reigo Fujiyamas to Tosho (about.. 30-40 blades I think) they took a little break. The project has been on the back burner, I'm sure as Konosuke has been completely slammed with orders. I had asked Olivia a bit about when / if they might make more.. and she had said that there wasn't a ton of steel left, potentially enough for 30ish more knives.. but that we'd have to wait and see.

When the time came to consider starting the project again, they thought about taking another approach. The Fujiyama sharpener was feeling.. a little worn out. So they hoped to reinvigorate him with a fun new project.
That's how the news broke of the initial revival of the Togo Reigo. That these would be made-to-order, individual knives, hand finished on natural stones, with the option for grind and profile adjustments made by the customer. It would be a case where... a limited number of people would work with Kosuke directly to figure out what they wanted their knife to be. So... theoretically, if you wanted something that was a true 240mm long, and 54mm tall... It could be done for you.

The downside of this? Each knife was going to run about $2000. That's a hard pill to swallow for a lot of people.. for a san mai knife. On the one hand, its the legendary Togo Reigo steel. Overseen by Konosuke- a brand well known for their quality. Hand finished on natural stones (which is a lot rarer than people think, straight out of a shop from Sakai), delivered directly to You, with some sort of paperwork proposed, for authenticity.
But on the other hand... $2000 for a single knife. Ouch.

So you may be wondering- what happened with that?? That could be the opportunity for some of us to get the Funayuki profile Fujiayam back, and in Togo Reigo!
....for whatever reason... They've elected not to continue down that path.
I've not gotten a straight answer on my inquiries... but there was an email sent out that summated it as something like.. the interest for the project was nothing short of overwhelming. Lets say, best case, they have 40 knives. How do you decide who gets them? Lottery? First come first serve? How do you handle the sheer strain of that kind of one-on-one customer interaction, Per Blade?

So to replace that, they've gone with the current iteration.
There was a Small batch of Togo Reigo / Vintage Swedish steel knives that were finished in the traditional Blue-steel Fujiyama way (shinogi line). As far as I know, these all were sold instantly.
I'm not sure if it was on Instagram, or here on the forums.. but Kosuke then mentioned that the Fujiyama sharpener preferred not to finish the remaining blades in this style. And this is where the current iteration we are seeing comes from. A full kasumi finish, finish with some amazing natural stones. Made a few at a time. With the Fujiyama sharpener being allowed to take much more time on each knife.

Between...

-the exclusivity of this steel: I can't find a single other Blacksmith that has Togo Reigo... and even if you COULD just buy some of the steel yourself, there are very few Blacksmith's that can reportedly work with it... It is said to be much harder to work with than even Blue #1

-The pedigree of the craftsmen working on this- does anyone doubt the talent of the Fujiyama Blacksmith and Sharpener? Two of the BEST working craftsmen in Sakai.

-The nature of the project- in Sakai, efficiency is normally the name of the game. They deal with very small margins and can't afford to take a lot of time per project... That's why they use Synthetic stones, and those water wheels. MUCH faster. It's what makes the knives they produce so incredibly impressive... Knowing that some of these shops churn out 15-20 knives in a day.. and they have better grinds and geometry than American makers who will take a full day or two on a single knife. With THIS project, both the Blacksmith and Sharpener can afford to invest more time.

..those that have said it is likely to be an expensive knife.. are probably right on. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw prices over $700-800.


But, as best I can summize... there you have the project: 'Vintage Swedish', or legendary Togo Reigo Steel. The Fujiyama Blacksmith and Sharpener. Taking more time on these than they do on other knives. Finished on natural stones. Incredibly limited run.

Cannot wait until we start seeing some of these out in the wild! And would love to have a chance to compare them to the original run from back in 2014.
salemj
Posts: 3709
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:27 pm
Location: British Columbia, Canada
Has thanked: 197 times
Been thanked: 528 times

Re: What’s the vintage Swedish Kono?

Post by salemj »

^^^Yeah. Thanks, Omega.

This is the point: you're essentially describing the HM. And those sat for a while up here in Canada. 700-800 USD is around 1000 CAD...the 210 HMs sold for well over 1000k Canadian, and given the steel, the Swedish are likely to be more precious. The price may no longer be 2000 USD, but I would not be surprised at all if the prices is 1500 CAD.

Not to precious for many people, I'm sure...but expensive enough that I don't doubt for a second that some people hesitate, as they did with the HM. Who knows. I've owned a dozen or more Konos, but I'm not sure I can get myself to buy one of these, even being up here in Canada!

30-40 knives in the first batch is more than I realized, although I do remember a number of those blades being in non-gyuto formats. I mostly remember two different handle types or varieties, but I guess there were several blades for each batch.

And I can confirm the "oral tradition" of your story: I specifically remember Tosho's description of the T.R. blades as being the result of "finding" the stock of steel and Ivan and Kosuke designing the project together based on that. I was also surprised when I heard CKTG would get some of these given that past collaboration, but a similar collaboration between those two (Ivan and Kosuke, which resulted in the one-piece handles now found on many Konosukes) seems to have spread its wings and is now offered at other suppliers, so I thought it might be possible with what I thought might be a "new" batch of steel and not the original one Ivan helped locate. Clearly, this is from the same "old" batch of steel, so that helps clear things up!

Thanks again, as always, for the rich and precise info, Omega!
~Joe

Comments: I'm short, a home cook, prefer lighter, thinner blades, and own mostly Konosukes but have used over a dozen brands.
User avatar
Jeff B
Posts: 14741
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:59 pm
Location: Louisville, Kentucky
Has thanked: 1954 times
Been thanked: 2324 times

Re: What’s the vintage Swedish Kono?

Post by Jeff B »

Omega --> When researching the much heralded Togo Reigo I came across most of the exact information that you just posted. I'd say most of it if not all of your post is very accurate. It will be interesting to see the level interest in these knives and how long they last given the mystic and the price the Togo Reigo of old fetches in today's market.
If God wanted me to be a vegetarian he wouldn't have made animals taste so good.
ChipB
Posts: 307
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:26 pm
Location: New York City
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: What’s the vintage Swedish Kono?

Post by ChipB »

Omega has the backstory nailed. I was lucky enough to grab a Togo Reigo from the initial run. If I remember correctly, there were 4 gyutos made available to the public via Tosho: 2x 210mm and 2x 240mm paired by handle material. I.E. a 210 and 240 with kurogaki handles and a 210 and 240 with ebony handles, both made by Khii. I might be mistaken on this, but I believe these Togo Reigos also represented the first time Khii grips were introduced to North America.

When I bought mine, I did a good bit of research into the steel itself which I believe I posted on the old forum. The stuff was originally produced by a Swedish refinery which is no longer in existence and was highly sought after in Japan for tool crafts. Today, pedigreed/documented Togo Reigo is some of the most expensive steel around. As the story goes, the Fujiyama smith's father kept record of his togo reigo inventory via journal and did not have official receipts/documents evidencing the pedigree of his stash which is why the knives sell for much less than what the hagane alone, if pedigreed, would cost.

The first run of these knives had a thicker overall geometry than contemporaneous B2s, though the grind interpretation and finish were identical. These knives were essentially prototypes for the Fujiyama smith in this steel.
ButlerHoosierChef
Posts: 722
Joined: Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:34 pm
Location: Greenfield Indiana
Has thanked: 68 times
Been thanked: 31 times

Re: What’s the vintage Swedish Kono?

Post by ButlerHoosierChef »

Just wish I could get my hands on one but alas I doubt that that will happen.
ChipB
Posts: 307
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:26 pm
Location: New York City
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: What’s the vintage Swedish Kono?

Post by ChipB »

salemj wrote: Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:14 pm ^^^Yeah. Thanks, Omega.

This is the point: you're essentially describing the HM. And those sat for a while up here in Canada.
I guess it depends on your definition of "a while". The HM that Tosho offered sat for 48 hrs and it was a completely new line... While I understand that the relative value of Fujiyamas and some other high-end Konosuke offerings is not as compelling as in years past, I think you're missing quite a bit in both your evaluation and valuation of knives like the HM and Togo Reigo. In fact, I could make an argument that the HM is not only one of the most spectacular gyutos ever offered by Konosuke, but one of the most impressive knives currently coming out of Japan period. The new hamaguriba ground Togo Reigos? These knives, in every regard, are on a different level than any Fujiyama you have ever owned (performance include. makes B2 iterations seem pedestrian).
Chefspence
Posts: 2504
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:03 pm
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 32 times

Re: What’s the vintage Swedish Kono?

Post by Chefspence »

Wow! you guys no way more than I ever thought this thread would be about :lol: Thanks for the replies, and Omega, you make me want to spend the $500 to get one of these blades. Great backstory.
User avatar
mauichef
Posts: 3974
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:10 pm
Location: Boca Chica, Panama
Has thanked: 675 times
Been thanked: 1021 times
Contact:

Re: What’s the vintage Swedish Kono?

Post by mauichef »

ChipB wrote: Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:30 pm Omega has the backstory nailed. I was lucky enough to grab a Togo Reigo from the initial run. If I remember correctly, there were 4 gyutos made available to the public via Tosho: 2x 210mm and 2x 240mm paired by handle material. I.E. a 210 and 240 with kurogaki handles and a 210 and 240 with ebony handles, both made by Khii. I might be mistaken on this, but I believe these Togo Reigos also represented the first time Khii grips were introduced to North America.

When I bought mine, I did a good bit of research into the steel itself which I believe I posted on the old forum. The stuff was originally produced by a Swedish refinery which is no longer in existence and was highly sought after in Japan for tool crafts. Today, pedigreed/documented Togo Reigo is some of the most expensive steel around. As the story goes, the Fujiyama smith's father kept record of his togo reigo inventory via journal and did not have official receipts/documents evidencing the pedigree of his stash which is why the knives sell for much less than what the hagane alone, if pedigreed, would cost.

The first run of these knives had a thicker overall geometry than contemporaneous B2s, though the grind interpretation and finish were identical. These knives were essentially prototypes for the Fujiyama smith in this steel.
I am a little confused by Omega's story and now yours too Chip. So where did the yanagiba and kiritsuke tip knives come from. Was there a second run? Thus making this current one the third? My Togo is a single bevel Kiri with the Khii Kurogaki handle.
Also Tosho definitely sold them as Togo Reigo on their site. Not Vintage Swedish. I still have my original invoice which states this is a Togo Reigo.
User avatar
ChefKnivesToGo
Site Admin
Posts: 16857
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 2:23 pm
Location: Madison, WI
Has thanked: 2051 times
Been thanked: 3275 times
Contact:

Re: What’s the vintage Swedish Kono?

Post by ChefKnivesToGo »

Chefspence wrote: Sat Jun 16, 2018 8:25 am Wow! you guys no way more than I ever thought this thread would be about :lol: Thanks for the replies, and Omega, you make me want to spend the $500 to get one of these blades. Great backstory.
Double that price.
Image
Mark Richmond
Co-Owner Chefknivestogo
https://www.chefknivestogo.com/newarrivals.html
Post Reply