Konosuke Togatta size question

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Konosuke Togatta size question

Post by ChefKnivesToGo »

I'm working on a second order for the Konosuke Togatta. The first batch was a big success and we sold all of them in a pretty short period of time.

My question is should I tinker with the height of the blades? I was thinking of making them 50mm instead of approximately 48mm but I'll defer to the consensus. I think the length, thickness, and overall finish were good.

Batch 2 is going to take 9 months so I want to get it right. I'll also be ordering a lot of them this time. 200 instead of the 50 I did as my first order.
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Re: Konosuke Togatta size question

Post by gladius »

50mm is preferred.
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Re: Konosuke Togatta size question

Post by MisoSatisfried »

gladius wrote: Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:52 am 50mm is preferred.
Agreed
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Re: Konosuke Togatta size question

Post by STPepper9 »

gladius wrote: Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:52 am 50mm is preferred.
For me as well
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Re: Konosuke Togatta size question

Post by Kit Craft »

50mm for sure.
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Re: Konosuke Togatta size question

Post by salemj »

I didn't buy one, but based on my Ikeda and the KS models I've used, 49mm is more predictable and better for this profile in my opinion. 50" sounds like the preferred height for a lot of people, but I'd worry about the other effects it would have on the blade. I like 48mm, but I think 49mm has benefits and can be pulled off, especially since several other Konosuke models of the past came in right at 49mm.
~Joe

Comments: I'm short, a home cook, prefer lighter, thinner blades, and own mostly Konosukes but have used over a dozen brands.
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Re: Konosuke Togatta size question

Post by jacko9 »

50mm would be good but, to be honest I find it very difficult to distinguish between the heights between 48 and 50mm.
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Re: Konosuke Togatta size question

Post by Kit Craft »

jacko9 wrote: Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:33 am 50mm would be good but, to be honest I find it very difficult to distinguish between the heights between 48 and 50mm.
For me it depends on the knife. Oddly the shorter in length the knife the taller I like it to be. I guess that is becuase I use it to chop and G&G. But I tend to slice and draw with a 240+ so I like them to feel Suji(esque). I can see where Joe is coming from because if my KS were 50mm tall I think it would change the feel of the knife entirely. That could be my imagination though.
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Re: Konosuke Togatta size question

Post by salemj »

Kit Craft wrote: Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:42 am
jacko9 wrote: Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:33 am 50mm would be good but, to be honest I find it very difficult to distinguish between the heights between 48 and 50mm.
For me it depends on the knife. Oddly the shorter in length the knife the taller I like it to be. I guess that is becuase I use it to chop and G&G. But I tend to slice and draw with a 240+ so I like them to feel Suji(esque). I can see where Joe is coming from because if my KS were 50mm tall I think it would change the feel of the knife entirely. That could be my imagination though.
One thing I'll add is that the size of the tang/neck/handle has a lot to do with it. My Ikeda was really only like 49mm when it arrived, but the neck was thin, the handle placement was tall, and the knife had a rise on the spine so that it actually felt taller as a blade than it was at the heel. After the work I've done on it (including flattening the spine), it is nearly the same height as my Nubatama, but the hand clearance on the Ikeda is about 34mm, while the clearance on the Nubatama is about 29mm since it has a thicker neck and a shorter choil. That is a BIG difference considering they probably vary about 1mm in height.

The other thing I learned from the Ikeda versus the KS is that it had a heigher blade height toward the tip (less of a downward slope on the spine). The added height of the blade thus continued longer through the profile. It REALLY affected the look and feel of the blade versus a real KS, and I altered this a bit to my preferences. Significantly, these differences DID affect performance in a noticeable way at the tip...part of what allows the KS to glide so easily is that area near the tip is very short - like a dagger - which makes it not only thinner, but also allows it to produce less drag for the 3" behind the tip than most taller blades because there is literally less vertical steel going through the food (as when slicing onions). I noticed this a lot on the Ikeda at first (especially with its Damascus coating), but it only took a little work to make it much more KS-like and I love it now. Mostly, I just lowered the spine a touch and changes the slope a touch, and since the spine is generally the thickest point on these knives, too, it also thinned the tip a touch, too.

Point is, adding just 2mm to the height - based on my experience with all sorts of gyutos - usually DIRECTLY affects the tip height for the last 3 inches of the blade in precisely this way, which also directly makes it look and feel a lot different than a "KS." This is also the biggest difference between my Funayuki-Gyutos by Konosuke and the regular ones, and any visual comparison makes it obvious that this is the signature performance aspects of the KS profile. To boot, this is also why I think the Togatta just "works" as an imitation of this profile style.
~Joe

Comments: I'm short, a home cook, prefer lighter, thinner blades, and own mostly Konosukes but have used over a dozen brands.
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Re: Konosuke Togatta size question

Post by ChefKnivesToGo »

Ok, if he can do 50mm I'll make the adjustment and do them at that height.
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Re: Konosuke Togatta size question

Post by Kit Craft »

I am not sure that any of that is a bad thing though. More interpretation and influence and less cloning. Some of these clones have already dropped down from 250+mm to 240-245 and most are lasers so they are not a true clone anyway. I, for one, would love to see a knife continuously grow and move with the desires of the forum. (Yeah, I know it wouldn't be the first time and it is happening now too but I'd like to see even more of it.)

A sab is a good example of a knife I picked up thinking it would be like a KS and mine really ins't but I like it anyway. It is taller at the heel, wider at the tip and the tip is higher off the board. (10 inch K-sab.) They both give me that same feel in use and on the board while being different knives. Another knife, while not similar really, but has that same feel (to me) is a 10 inch forgecraft. This knife is different but it has that same, idk, feeling finesse while inspiring confidence at the same time. And to me that is what knives like these are about, not so much about being a replica of another well liked knife.
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Re: Konosuke Togatta size question

Post by Chefspence »

Agreed
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Re: Konosuke Togatta size question

Post by jbart65 »

If I am not mistaken, most older KS gyutos ranged from 47 to 50, with 48-49 the norm. I'd be wary of going over 50, but it seems like 49-50 would be OK.
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Re: Konosuke Togatta size question

Post by easilver »

51mm if possible. I like a little extra height on a 240
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Re: Konosuke Togatta size question

Post by Jeff B »

My older KS is 50mm. Most of my knives are 50+mm and I definitely like a little taller knife over one that is too short. Even in a 210mm knife I like the height at 50mm. A little to tall always trumps a little to short.
The biggest complaint I've heard over the years about the KS is the height. Those who got them at 50mm were the more satisfied crowd when it came to the KS. When they were 46-48 is when people were less satisfied.
Last edited by Jeff B on Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Konosuke Togatta size question

Post by mauichef »

50mm is good for me too, regardless of length.
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Re: Konosuke Togatta size question

Post by slobound »

I'm in agreement for 50mm as well.
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Re: Konosuke Togatta size question

Post by gladius »

Jeff B wrote: Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:47 pm The biggest complaint I've heard over the years about the KS is the height. Those who got them at 50mm were the more satisfied crowd when it came to the KS. When they were 46-48 is when people were less satisfied.
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That is why I sold my two KS's and my Kono Ginsan 240
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Re: Konosuke Togatta size question

Post by Jeff B »

gladius wrote: Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:31 pm
Jeff B wrote: Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:47 pm The biggest complaint I've heard over the years about the KS is the height. Those who got them at 50mm were the more satisfied crowd when it came to the KS. When they were 46-48 is when people were less satisfied.
---
That is why I sold my two KS's and my Kono Ginsan 240
If my KS had been in that 46-48mm range I might very well be right there with you gladius. My HD2 is the shortest 240 I own at 47mm. Everything else is 50+mm.
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Re: Konosuke Togatta size question

Post by MisoSatisfried »

gladius wrote: Fri Jun 01, 2018 4:31 pm
Jeff B wrote: Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:47 pm The biggest complaint I've heard over the years about the KS is the height. Those who got them at 50mm were the more satisfied crowd when it came to the KS. When they were 46-48 is when people were less satisfied.
---
That is why I sold my two KS's and my Kono Ginsan 240
Same here, except I still have my KS... temporarily.
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