Suehiro debado

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Kit Craft
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Re: Suehiro debado

Post by Kit Craft »

I like a lot of bite on a honesuki and use a natural Mozen-to for this, which is like having both a 1k and a 3k in one package. Were I going synthetic I'd be looking for something that leaves a more aggressive edge. Synthetic Akamon, King 1200, shapton pro 1500 etc. But that is just based on my preference.

The Debado and chosera 3k finish closer to a 4k in term of edge performance. I prefer an "in your face" aggressiveness from my butchery knives. It wouldn't be fair for me to try to put the stones against one another as I have not used them side by side but I can tell you that the Debado does, much, much better with contrast if you have a more traditional honesuki. It is also noticeably softer, dare I say significantly. It has been so long since I have used the Kouga/"rika" that it would be speculation drawn on a distant memory to say more than it reminded me of a typical stone from the suehiro traditional line up, think rika 5k and you will get the picture.

Mind you, I like edges with a lot of bite in general so that changes how I look at things. 5-6k is about as far as I generally like to go and 3-5k is more normally. For butchery tools and stainless it is more like 1-3k.

I hope someone else chimes in here.
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Re: Suehiro debado

Post by zizirex »

Well the Rika/Kouga 3K would be better then because if Debado finishes like 4K, that is not what I'm looking for. I thought the Debado have a toothy finish like the Traditional stones.

Thank you for the Info though.
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Re: Suehiro debado

Post by Kit Craft »

zizirex wrote: Sun Jun 17, 2018 3:56 pm Well the Rika/Kouga 3K would be better then because if Debado finishes like 4K, that is not what I'm looking for. I thought the Debado have a toothy finish like the Traditional stones.

Thank you for the Info though.
No problem. Like I said, subtle bite from the Debado. Not that it is without tooth it just isn't so aggressive. I hope that comes across correctly. I guess the best way to put it is that it is clearly north of a 2k and south of a 5k. That is my dilemma, in general, with 3 and 4k stones. :|
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Re: Suehiro debado

Post by Cowboy Dan »

Kit Craft wrote: Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:46 pm I like a lot of bite on a honesuki and use a natural Mozen-to for this, which is like having both a 1k and a 3k in one package. Were I going synthetic I'd be looking for something that leaves a more aggressive edge. Synthetic Akamon, King 1200, shapton pro 1500 etc. But that is just based on my preference.

The Debado and chosera 3k finish closer to a 4k in term of edge performance. I prefer an "in your face" aggressiveness from my butchery knives. It wouldn't be fair for me to try to put the stones against one another as I have not used them side by side but I can tell you that the Debado does, much, much better with contrast if you have a more traditional honesuki. It is also noticeably softer, dare I say significantly. It has been so long since I have used the Kouga/"rika" that it would be speculation drawn on a distant memory to say more than it reminded me of a typical stone from the suehiro traditional line up, think rika 5k and you will get the picture.

Mind you, I like edges with a lot of bite in general so that changes how I look at things. 5-6k is about as far as I generally like to go and 3-5k is more normally. For butchery tools and stainless it is more like 1-3k.

I hope someone else chimes in here.
I’m looking forward to your final verdict on these stones. I’ve been using my cho 400 & 800 pretty regularly and loved them till last night.. I went to turn over my 800 on my drying rack, after having a sharpening break through (whittled a hair), and as if some kind of black magic there were suddenly dark lines that turned out to be hairline cracks in the surface. I tried lapping them out to no avail. I treat these stones with kid gloves! I took every possible precaution, no soaking, proper drying, everything. It’s really discouraging but it also made my decision to get suehiro stones next very easy.. I would post a photo but can’t figure out how to for the life of me. I’m doing this on my cell so that could be a factor. Do you have any wisdom or comforting thoughts on this lol? :(
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Re: Suehiro debado

Post by Kit Craft »

They are getting a workout for sure. Soaked and "dried" daily. I use quotes because these stones will not dry 100% over night. They do not seem delicate nor have any of the other suehiro stones I have used. But it has been awhile. When I left Spain I left my starter stone set there (Beston 500, Bester 1200, Rika 5k and Kitayama 8k.) I have since re-bought the Kit and I think after this test I want to pick the other stones back up as my skills have changed over the years and I am curious to see how these nostalgic stones hold up in reality to my memory of them. At least as compared to these Debado stones and some other semi-recent acquisitions.

Anyway, I can say that these Debado stones are nice and seem to be well made. :) I will probably put up the first review early next week, on the 320 and work my way up from there. At first I thought about just doing a series overview but I have so much information on these stones and I know that different stones will appeal to different people and that a thread like that would just turn into massive text walls.
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Re: Suehiro debado

Post by Kit Craft »

Debado 320 review for those interested.

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=7047&p=58950#p58950
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Re: Suehiro debado

Post by zizirex »

Nice, Thank you for the review, can't wait for the 4000 review.

Another question, How do you compare the Chosera 3k vs Debado 3k vs Imanishi Tamago 4k? since all leave similar finish? I know it still leaves a little bit too fine for Honesuki but who knew.

Thank you.
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Re: Suehiro debado

Post by Kit Craft »

zizirex wrote: Tue Jun 26, 2018 2:05 am Nice, Thank you for the review, can't wait for the 4000 review.

Another question, How do you compare the Chosera 3k vs Debado 3k vs Imanishi Tamago 4k? since all leave similar finish? I know it still leaves a little bit too fine for Honesuki but who knew.

Thank you.
Long night and I just woke up so I hope I am firing on all cylinders here. The chosera still has good feedback but the Debado has a more immediate response. The chosera is noticeably harder and slightly finer and leaves a more straightforward finish in terms of gloss/shine rather than haze. Teh Tamago is closer in hardness to the Debado, more muddy if you put a little ass behind it and particularly if you are sharpening a wide bevel. They are pretty similar in many ways. But I have not done a side by side and have not used either the Debado nor the Tamago near as much as the Chosera, fwiw. It is just that the Debado is fresh in my mind.

For edge quality only on a narrow double bevel, and assuming you like a fair bit of refinement with remnants of tooth then I think the chosera is probably one of the better stones I have used. For feedback, I still think soakers win out. For convenience, not so much. For feedback, it is hard to beat the rika 5k in this range (mind you, I am going off memory and have not owned one since leaving Spain about 2 years ago).

Anyway, it will be hard to make a wrong choice with these stones as they all work well. Just decide which characteristics you prefer and how much money you want to spend and go from there.

And thank you for taking the time to read the review, I hope it was helpful. I am working on the 1k next (probably my favorite in the lineup, which is a surprise) and from using it I can say that I think, if the 1500 is inline with the 1k, it is probably a gem of a stone.
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Re: Suehiro debado

Post by nakneker »

Kit Craft wrote: Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:13 am Debado 320 review for those interested.

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=7047&p=58950#p58950
Nicely done Kit. Another in depth review loaded with info, both pros and cons. I look forward to seeing more on the other stones, especially the 3k which is my favorite of the bunch.

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Re: Suehiro debado

Post by old onion »

Cowboy Dan wrote: Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:11 am
Kit Craft wrote: Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:46 pm I like a lot of bite on a honesuki and use a natural Mozen-to for this, which is like having both a 1k and a 3k in one package. Were I going synthetic I'd be looking for something that leaves a more aggressive edge. Synthetic Akamon, King 1200, shapton pro 1500 etc. But that is just based on my preference.

The Debado and chosera 3k finish closer to a 4k in term of edge performance. I prefer an "in your face" aggressiveness from my butchery knives. It wouldn't be fair for me to try to put the stones against one another as I have not used them side by side but I can tell you that the Debado does, much, much better with contrast if you have a more traditional honesuki. It is also noticeably softer, dare I say significantly. It has been so long since I have used the Kouga/"rika" that it would be speculation drawn on a distant memory to say more than it reminded me of a typical stone from the suehiro traditional line up, think rika 5k and you will get the picture.

Mind you, I like edges with a lot of bite in general so that changes how I look at things. 5-6k is about as far as I generally like to go and 3-5k is more normally. For butchery tools and stainless it is more like 1-3k.

I hope someone else chimes in here.
I’m looking forward to your final verdict on these stones. I’ve been using my cho 400 & 800 pretty regularly and loved them till last night.. I went to turn over my 800 on my drying rack, after having a sharpening break through (whittled a hair), and as if some kind of black magic there were suddenly dark lines that turned out to be hairline cracks in the surface. I tried lapping them out to no avail. I treat these stones with kid gloves! I took every possible precaution, no soaking, proper drying, everything. It’s really discouraging but it also made my decision to get suehiro stones next very easy.. I would post a photo but can’t figure out how to for the life of me. I’m doing this on my cell so that could be a factor. Do you have any wisdom or comforting thoughts on this lol? :(
Cowboy,
I wouldn't worry about the hairline cracks in the Chos.My Naniwa pros are showing those hairline cracks too and I was real careful in drying mine as well.I even put a damp towel around mine to slow the drying process as is recommended by somebody who is way more experienced then I. The cracks won't hurt anything and do not hinder sharpening.All I can say is some people have experienced this with their Choseras and some haven't.You and I must have been born under the same cloud.We might have been,I am somewhat of a cowboy myself having a couple horses and used to do a lot of Team Penning and Team Roping steers.Now at 71,it's hard for me to even put my foot in the stirrup,but I try. ;)
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Re: Suehiro debado

Post by Cowboy Dan »

old onion wrote: Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:17 pm
Cowboy Dan wrote: Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:11 am
Kit Craft wrote: Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:46 pm I like a lot of bite on a honesuki and use a natural Mozen-to for this, which is like having both a 1k and a 3k in one package. Were I going synthetic I'd be looking for something that leaves a more aggressive edge. Synthetic Akamon, King 1200, shapton pro 1500 etc. But that is just based on my preference.

The Debado and chosera 3k finish closer to a 4k in term of edge performance. I prefer an "in your face" aggressiveness from my butchery knives. It wouldn't be fair for me to try to put the stones against one another as I have not used them side by side but I can tell you that the Debado does, much, much better with contrast if you have a more traditional honesuki. It is also noticeably softer, dare I say significantly. It has been so long since I have used the Kouga/"rika" that it would be speculation drawn on a distant memory to say more than it reminded me of a typical stone from the suehiro traditional line up, think rika 5k and you will get the picture.

Mind you, I like edges with a lot of bite in general so that changes how I look at things. 5-6k is about as far as I generally like to go and 3-5k is more normally. For butchery tools and stainless it is more like 1-3k.

I hope someone else chimes in here.
I’m looking forward to your final verdict on these stones. I’ve been using my cho 400 & 800 pretty regularly and loved them till last night.. I went to turn over my 800 on my drying rack, after having a sharpening break through (whittled a hair), and as if some kind of black magic there were suddenly dark lines that turned out to be hairline cracks in the surface. I tried lapping them out to no avail. I treat these stones with kid gloves! I took every possible precaution, no soaking, proper drying, everything. It’s really discouraging but it also made my decision to get suehiro stones next very easy.. I would post a photo but can’t figure out how to for the life of me. I’m doing this on my cell so that could be a factor. Do you have any wisdom or comforting thoughts on this lol? :(
Cowboy,
I wouldn't worry about the hairline cracks in the Chos.My Naniwa pros are showing those hairline cracks too and I was real careful in drying mine as well.I even put a damp towel around mine to slow the drying process as is recommended by somebody who is way more experienced then I. The cracks won't hurt anything and do not hinder sharpening.All I can say is some people have experienced this with their Choseras and some haven't.You and I must have been born under the same cloud.We might have been,I am somewhat of a cowboy myself having a couple horses and used to do a lot of Team Penning and Team Roping steers.Now at 71,it's hard for me to even put my foot in the stirrup,but I try. ;)
That’s good to know! I can’t justify paying another $100 on a 3k
from naniwa if I’m at risk of having that happen again. I’ve sharpened on it twice since they appeared and it looks like it almost healed itself after drying. I can barely make out that they were ever there.. Phew!! I too used the damp towel method at first but I just let them dry out completely on a wine rack under a cabinet. It’s working for me so I’ll keep pressing forward. The name cowboy dan is a long running joke/nickname my buddies gave me. I’ve actually been a chef in the fine food scene for 10 years now, worked in kitchens since I was legally allowed to. I do forestry on the side but I’m hanging up my coat to work for the forest service in my area. I’m wore out and ready for a change of pace.
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Re: Suehiro debado

Post by Jeff B »

The original Choceras were much less likely to "spiderweb". It was something you heard about but not often. After Naniwa made their changes and came out with the Naniwa Pro to replace the Chocera that's when the complaints became much more common. The spider webbing doesn't seem to hurt the stone or affect the performance according to most that have had it happen. Only a very rare few have actually had their stones badly crack or break.
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Re: Suehiro debado

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The Debados have arrived.
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Re: Suehiro debado

Post by lsboogy »

How are the Debados for feel. As I grow older, I am discovering that I like softer stones and using less pressure. I have the required shapton set (8 pros, none of the glass stones) and my go to is still a soft 1K stone (I am still tending towards the Nutabama 1200 Ken sold me, but the red brick is better on some steels - AEBL seems to like the brick more - but both are lovely replacements for my broken 30 year old Kikuichi some K red soft stone). I get a great edge on my 1K stone and then shift to either an aging 6K mizuyama or an 8K Kitayama that's about 15 years old. I like the feel of certain stones more and more. I tried using a shapton glass set and they are nice, but hard stones that I have difficulty feeling my way through

I think you should talk to Mark or Ken - they steer me right. I'm probably going to get another 6-8K stone for my birthday - and if anyone wants an old King 1K/6K stone (purchased at WS 20 twenty years ago - still in great shape - never have figured the thing out - too hard for me) to learn on id let it go cheap - my stone drawer is full and I want a big ol soft high grit stone
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Re: Suehiro debado

Post by ChefKnivesToGo »

Kit Craft wrote: Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:46 pm I like a lot of bite on a honesuki and use a natural Mozen-to for this, which is like having both a 1k and a 3k in one package. Were I going synthetic I'd be looking for something that leaves a more aggressive edge. Synthetic Akamon, King 1200, shapton pro 1500 etc. But that is just based on my preference.

The Debado and chosera 3k finish closer to a 4k in term of edge performance. I prefer an "in your face" aggressiveness from my butchery knives. It wouldn't be fair for me to try to put the stones against one another as I have not used them side by side but I can tell you that the Debado does, much, much better with contrast if you have a more traditional honesuki. It is also noticeably softer, dare I say significantly. It has been so long since I have used the Kouga/"rika" that it would be speculation drawn on a distant memory to say more than it reminded me of a typical stone from the suehiro traditional line up, think rika 5k and you will get the picture.

Mind you, I like edges with a lot of bite in general so that changes how I look at things. 5-6k is about as far as I generally like to go and 3-5k is more normally. For butchery tools and stainless it is more like 1-3k.

I hope someone else chimes in here.
Kit, do you mind if I mooch some of your reviews on the Debados for copy on the item pages? They're really good and have lots of detail.
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Re: Suehiro debado

Post by Kit Craft »

ChefKnivesToGo wrote: Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:03 am
Kit Craft wrote: Sun Jun 17, 2018 2:46 pm I like a lot of bite on a honesuki and use a natural Mozen-to for this, which is like having both a 1k and a 3k in one package. Were I going synthetic I'd be looking for something that leaves a more aggressive edge. Synthetic Akamon, King 1200, shapton pro 1500 etc. But that is just based on my preference.

The Debado and chosera 3k finish closer to a 4k in term of edge performance. I prefer an "in your face" aggressiveness from my butchery knives. It wouldn't be fair for me to try to put the stones against one another as I have not used them side by side but I can tell you that the Debado does, much, much better with contrast if you have a more traditional honesuki. It is also noticeably softer, dare I say significantly. It has been so long since I have used the Kouga/"rika" that it would be speculation drawn on a distant memory to say more than it reminded me of a typical stone from the suehiro traditional line up, think rika 5k and you will get the picture.

Mind you, I like edges with a lot of bite in general so that changes how I look at things. 5-6k is about as far as I generally like to go and 3-5k is more normally. For butchery tools and stainless it is more like 1-3k.

I hope someone else chimes in here.
Kit, do you mind if I mooch some of your reviews on the Debados for copy on the item pages? They're really good and have lots of detail.
Sorry to have taken so long to respond, Mark, life got busy! Of course, feel free to use them! I still have the 6k to do, I have the rough draft but have not had the chance to get beyond that.

Glad you liked the review, btw!
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Re: Suehiro debado

Post by nakneker »

Sorry to have taken so long to respond, Mark, life got busy! Of course, feel free to use them! I still have the 6k to do, I have the rough draft but have not had the chance to get beyond that.

Glad you liked the review, btw!
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Re: Suehiro debado

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nakneker wrote: Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:13 pm

Nice to see you back Kit!
Nice to see ya'll as well. I wasn't trying to hide! Life got busy for a moment. It is summer, so a lot of yard work et al and my mother broke her leg so I have to do her yard work too. :lol: And she has had me running all sorts of errands. And so it goes. But the summer is coming to an end and she gets to give up her walking boot thing next week so everything will chill all at once.
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Re: Suehiro debado

Post by Carter »

Welcome back KC...hopefully sunnier days on the horizon.
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Re: Suehiro debado

Post by nakneker »

Kit Craft wrote: Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:51 pm
nakneker wrote: Thu Aug 16, 2018 5:13 pm

Nice to see you back Kit!
Nice to see ya'll as well. I wasn't trying to hide! Life got busy for a moment. It is summer, so a lot of yard work et al and my mother broke her leg so I have to do her yard work too. :lol: And she has had me running all sorts of errands. And so it goes. But the summer is coming to an end and she gets to give up her walking boot thing next week so everything will chill all at once.
I’m glad to here it’s calmin down. Missed ya!
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