Upgrade from a bamboo cutting board

For questions/topics that don't fit into the other, more specific forums.
Rusky
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Upgrade from a bamboo cutting board

Post by Rusky »

From my understanding bamboo is on the hard side and will dull the blade faster than edge/end grain...but the prices on them are rather high.

I don't cut aggressively, I'm pretty controlled and not slamming the knife into the board...so how big of a deal is bamboo on the knife? If it matters I got this one https://www.chefknivestogo.com/anbl2bu17.html

If you think it does make a difference can you link me to some good boards, I'm looking for ones in the 18' x 12' size range
5698k
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Re: Upgrade from a bamboo cutting board

Post by 5698k »

https://www.cuttingboard.com/search.php ... ery=Hinoki

I love hinoki boards. Also called Japanese cypress. They’re light, very durable, and a light on maintenance. They almost feel soft under a blade, and do nothing to dull your blade.
salemj
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Re: Upgrade from a bamboo cutting board

Post by salemj »

Yeah. There are two basic considerations: 1) material and 2) construction. They are, of course, related. You want a material which complements the edges you are using, and you want a construction which will stay true and be easily maintained over time, as the more acute and hard your edges, the more you feel even the slightest bumps or swells or warps in a board, and they can raise potential torquing depending on your technique. It is also just super unpleasant to cut on a board that feels uneven or unstable. I find Bamboo and composite (Epicurean, for example) boards to be the absolute least friendly in terms of both categories above, but otherwise it has a lot more to do with the individual board in my opinion.

Hinoki boards have a solid reputation; otherwise, people often focus on end-grain boards of softer hardwoods. In the size you want, I think it is a draw.

I don't own a hinoki board, but one reason I've avoided them is that they are light and stain easily, another is that they may feel a bit too soft and I'm not sure how they hold up over time to different heat and humidity (or lack thereof—Japan is very humid and I think they are designed for more humid environments); I also imagine they retain smells very easily, and I don't know how well they take to oiling and such, all of which affects their life. That said, I see no reason why a board "needs to" last more than 7 years, and if these give seven excellent years and then need to be replaced due to drying out or whatever, they are probably awesome.

A good end-grain board could last five times as long (at least), but that is mostly because they are easy to maintain, not because they are maintenance free. End-grain oils easily, they sand easily, and when they warp, it tends to be more "organic" and easily to correct, especially if you flip the board regularly, whereas edge-grain (like hinoki) can often warp along the entire board and be a lot hard to correct once it happens. End-grain is also "self healing," meaning that a good wood with the right hardness that is well-oiled will not actually show gouges or scratches or worklines hardly at all, and they can even disappear once the board is oiled—I have never seen an edge-grain board do this nearly as well. The downside is that end-grain boards must be thicker and heavier to hold up—and this is a major downside for some, myself included, when compared to something like a hinoki. It is also a downside in the size you want, because it is kinda weird to work on a 2"+ board that is only 18x12 (in that size, you would only need about 1.5" thickness I think, but non-mass produced makers almost always aim for 2" or more).

So, I think the first step is just deciding if you want a bigger life-time board, or a smaller, lighter, excellent board that will wear out a little more quickly. In the size you want, I honestly think you are probably better with the latter, and potentially, with a hinoki or just a basic, nice edge-grain from reputable brand in good wood that will have reliable gluing (the glue patterns on edge grain are also way less reliable than those on a good end-grain because they run the entire length of the board, so they are more vulnerable to the effects of individual slaps warping over time and splitting the board under pressure). One thing I do not know about hinoki boards is what a "good" brand is: I have no idea if these boards have the same problem as a lot of "Western" edge-grain boards in terms of splitting or warping over time along the seams. That would be worth looking into.

Otherwise, popular hardwoods include walnut (underrated as it is nice and soft but still durable, in my opinion), cherry, maple (overrated for me as it is often aggressively hard but still stains easily), and a few others. Less popular ones which many members find to be totally usable even though you have to be careful include teak and acacia.
~Joe

Comments: I'm short, a home cook, prefer lighter, thinner blades, and own mostly Konosukes but have used over a dozen brands.
Rusky
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Re: Upgrade from a bamboo cutting board

Post by Rusky »

Wooo so much info for my to digest! Really appreciate the comments 5698k and salemj!

What are your thoughts on this puppy, seems to be that middle sweet spot of decent board with a good price
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Re: Upgrade from a bamboo cutting board

Post by jacko9 »

Rusky wrote: Fri Nov 09, 2018 10:57 am Wooo so much info for my to digest! Really appreciate the comments 5698k and salemj!

What are your thoughts on this puppy, seems to be that middle sweet spot of decent board with a good price
As a woodworker I have never seen a wood like Teak for destroying a hand plane edge - it is like running your hand plane over 180 grit sandpaper. I would avoid Teak for a cutting board there are natural hard minerals in the wood structure.
LostHighway
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Re: Upgrade from a bamboo cutting board

Post by LostHighway »

I'm in broad agreement with Joe/salemj but I'm going to add another option. Hinoki stains and absorbs odors readily. The usual drill is to wet the board before use which significantly reduces but IME does not totally eliminate these issues. End grain hardwood is great (like Joe I prefer cherry or walnut) but needs to be kept oiled and is heavy, although that is less of an issue in the size you're considering. My suggestion would be Hi-Soft, I have this board https://www.korin.com/HiSoft-Cutting-Board_3 and really like it although it is slightly smaller than I prefer. It doesn't knife mark too easily and is self healing to a degree but I'd probably recommend staying away from using serrated bread knives and heavy cleavers on Hi Soft.
A definite "no" to both bamboo and teak, too hard on edges.
OgerBash
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Re: Upgrade from a bamboo cutting board

Post by OgerBash »

I second the hi soft recommendation. I barely ever use my wooden cutting boards anymore. I use the one with grooves for cutting presenting whole meats for guests, and the nice end grain got relegated to cutting vegetables in front of guests. Everything else I use my high soft for.
rayl1234
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Re: Upgrade from a bamboo cutting board

Post by rayl1234 »

Bamboo is not that much different in hardness than maple as I recall -- but I made the same switch earlier this year and went with walnut, which is definitely on the softer side of woods.
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Re: Upgrade from a bamboo cutting board

Post by salemj »

rayl1234 wrote: Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:05 pm Bamboo is not that much different in hardness than maple as I recall -- but I made the same switch earlier this year and went with walnut, which is definitely on the softer side of woods.
I think the issue with bamboo is glue, not the bamboo itself. Bamboo boards have tons of glue or epoxy in them, and this makes them extremely hard. The feeling in use confirms this 10 fold.
~Joe

Comments: I'm short, a home cook, prefer lighter, thinner blades, and own mostly Konosukes but have used over a dozen brands.
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Jeff B
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Re: Upgrade from a bamboo cutting board

Post by Jeff B »

rayl1234 wrote: Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:05 pm Bamboo is not that much different in hardness than maple as I recall...
With Bamboo it's not really the wood(which is actually a grass), it's the amount of glue that is needed to make them that causes those boards to be so hard and hard on edges.
If God wanted me to be a vegetarian he wouldn't have made animals taste so good.
LostHighway
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Re: Upgrade from a bamboo cutting board

Post by LostHighway »

salemj wrote: Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:28 pm
rayl1234 wrote: Fri Nov 09, 2018 12:05 pm Bamboo is not that much different in hardness than maple as I recall -- but I made the same switch earlier this year and went with walnut, which is definitely on the softer side of woods.
I think the issue with bamboo is glue, not the bamboo itself. Bamboo boards have tons of glue or epoxy in them, and this makes them extremely hard. The feeling in use confirms this 10 fold.
Bamboo and teak are abrasive because they contain high amounts of silica. I believe the content is typically higher in bamboo than in teak but both are higher than most woods (although bamboo is technically a grass). Bamboo is also quite variable in hardness even within the same species as the nodes tend to be much harder than the rest of culms. Older culms also tend to be harder than younger growth. Depending on the care taken by the maker (which I would not bet on) a bamboo cutting board could be very variable in hardness across the cutting surface. Tamarck/larch (Larix sp.) also share the issues of silica content and variable hardness. I can't speak to the glue issue, per se, but there is quite a bit more glue in bamboo cutting boards because the strips are so thin as Joe and Jeff noted, however, bamboo and teak will both dull cutting tools rapidly in the absence of any glue, just ask woodworkers who have experience with them.
Rusky
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Re: Upgrade from a bamboo cutting board

Post by Rusky »

I will pass on the teak then

Thoughts on this one?

or

or


I'm trying to not spend $100+ on the board...at least that the goal here
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mauichef
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Re: Upgrade from a bamboo cutting board

Post by mauichef »

Might as well cut on cement as bamboo. It is the worst thing you can do to any knife!
I have fallen in love with Hi-Soft boards.
I actually have not sharpened one knife since I got mine.
datster
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Re: Upgrade from a bamboo cutting board

Post by datster »

Rusky wrote: Fri Nov 09, 2018 2:04 pm I will pass on the teak then

Thoughts on this one?

or

or


I'm trying to not spend $100+ on the board...at least that the goal here
$99.95 and way better than any of that Amazon stuff. 18"x12"x1.5" Maple End Grain. http://jonescuttingboards.com/store/p7/ ... 32000.html
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Re: Upgrade from a bamboo cutting board

Post by btbyrd »

+1 for Hi-Soft. Edge retention forever! I agree that the home size can be on the smaller side if you're using large knives or cutting huge items, but Korin also sells a smaller version that can be used as a sort of "expander" for the larger one. If you set them side by side, there's not much of an appreciable seam. Here they are with a 300mm Takeda and Sukenari 270.
IMG_8039.JPG
Hinoki is okay, but it is porous as all get out, so it stains easily and sucks up water way faster than other boards. I always feel paranoid washing mine, and only use it on non-smelly fruit/veg.
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Re: Upgrade from a bamboo cutting board

Post by 5698k »

Ok, I’m intrigued by the hi soft. I haven’t had issues with hinoki other than staining, but I otherwise really like them. Are the hi soft somewhat non slip? Do they soak water at all?
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Re: Upgrade from a bamboo cutting board

Post by mauichef »

5698k wrote: Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:07 pm Ok, I’m intrigued by the hi soft. I haven’t had issues with hinoki other than staining, but I otherwise really like them. Are the hi soft somewhat non slip? Do they soak water at all?
Non slip and do not soak water at all. they are composite boards.
Don't get the ones with a wood core.
I bought a super large which is basically my work surface now.
Check out Korin for the best prices.
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Re: Upgrade from a bamboo cutting board

Post by btbyrd »

I really like hinoki too... it's inexpensive for wood and great on knife edges. But I also find it quite fussy. It's recommended to mist hinoki boards with water before using them to prevent them from absorbing colors and smells. The sides of my board suck up water like a straw, so I wash and dry it with much more care and attention than any of my other cutting boards.

The Hi-Softs are somewhat nonslip, with a slightly grippy but not quite rubbery texture. They don't need help on the countertop to keep from moving around. They're fully synthetic (polyvinyl acetate) so they don't absorb water at all. But unlike some other types of synthetics, they can't go in the dishwasher.
OgerBash
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Re: Upgrade from a bamboo cutting board

Post by OgerBash »

The hi-soft is pretty easy to sand down as well. I was lazy and didn't make sure the bottom of the board was dry before going to work. Two days later when I pulled it off the counter there was alittle mold were water had gotten under the board. Bleach solution didn't completely get it, so I took some 400 wet dry sand paper to it. That took care of the stain

Most stains you can put some cleaning solution with bleach on it and the stain will come out.
Bmoze
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Re: Upgrade from a bamboo cutting board

Post by Bmoze »

I recently researched and bought cutting boards myself. I bought medium and small hinoki boards. I like that they’re lightweight (easy to move to the sink and wash), and aesthetically pleasing. I haven’t noticed any odor issues, but they do stain more easily than I expected, even though I treat the boards regularly with mineral oil and wood wax. I’ve twice removed stains with hydrogen peroxide and baking soda. It works well but it’s a hassle. I still like them, though. The aesthetics are satisfying, and I’ll admit it matters.

I just bought my daughter a nice end grain walnut board. It’s the brand Mark carries. Beautiful and well made. It’s heavy, though. She loves it, but I prefer the hinoki.

Despite researching this a bunch, I didn’t know about the Korin board until this thread. I’ll probably get one.
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