Is there a precise definitional difference between these 2 steel constructions?
Or is it more how different lines are marketed? Like I see Masamoto attaches kasumi to all white knives and hongasumi to all blue.
I’ve found some references that vaguely refer to hongasumi as “higher quality” kasumi and others that say kasumi is mass produced from a steel vendor whereas hongasumi is manually produced by a blacksmith with more careful minimization of imperfections (not sure what those may be).
Hongasumi vs kasumi
Re: Hongasumi vs kasumi
From what I understand, it's pretty much what you said.
Oftentimes, what seem to be references to the types of polishing end up instead being used as references to "grades" of merchandise instead. Generally speaking, hongasumi is often effectively used to mean "higher grade kasumi-polished", though what the differences that make it a higher grade vary by the maker. In some cases it's more human intervention on the lamination of the steel instead of using pre-laminated steels, in others it's simply more labor put in with the grinding/polishing, or stricter quality-control, or yet something else.
For examples in the other direction, you might find below-kasumi grades such as kairyo-kasumi ("improving mist[-polished]") and tate-togi ("vertical-polished"); I think these names just really mean "low-grade" and "extra-low-grade" and are not a statement that vertical polishing or yet some other polishing is somehow necessarily inferior to kasumi polishing. (AFAIK, Takayuki's kairyo-kasumi line uses yellow-steel rather than the white-steel used in its main lines.)
Oftentimes, what seem to be references to the types of polishing end up instead being used as references to "grades" of merchandise instead. Generally speaking, hongasumi is often effectively used to mean "higher grade kasumi-polished", though what the differences that make it a higher grade vary by the maker. In some cases it's more human intervention on the lamination of the steel instead of using pre-laminated steels, in others it's simply more labor put in with the grinding/polishing, or stricter quality-control, or yet something else.
For examples in the other direction, you might find below-kasumi grades such as kairyo-kasumi ("improving mist[-polished]") and tate-togi ("vertical-polished"); I think these names just really mean "low-grade" and "extra-low-grade" and are not a statement that vertical polishing or yet some other polishing is somehow necessarily inferior to kasumi polishing. (AFAIK, Takayuki's kairyo-kasumi line uses yellow-steel rather than the white-steel used in its main lines.)
Re: Hongasumi vs kasumi
Good answer above, but I would like to add some thoughts. I’ve noticed that sometimes ”kasumi” is used by some retailers to indicate that the whole blade surface is polished, i.e not kurouchi/nashiji/hammered finish and also not damascus cladding.
Imo this is a misleading since ”kasumi” means ”mist” and usually indicates the matte polish of the softer steel cladding along the bladeroad in contrast to the mirror polished core steel. This bladeroad finish can be applied to kurouchi/nashiji/whatever knives as well. Many knives are made with a ”fake kasumi” where they have used some sort of bead blasting to mimic more ”real” kasumi. But there are probably a lot of diffent methods to achieve a ”kasumi look”.
Regarding misleading use of the word ”kasumi”, I wish ”migaki” was used more often in this context. It means ”polished” and I’m sure I’ve seen some retailers use it.
Imo this is a misleading since ”kasumi” means ”mist” and usually indicates the matte polish of the softer steel cladding along the bladeroad in contrast to the mirror polished core steel. This bladeroad finish can be applied to kurouchi/nashiji/whatever knives as well. Many knives are made with a ”fake kasumi” where they have used some sort of bead blasting to mimic more ”real” kasumi. But there are probably a lot of diffent methods to achieve a ”kasumi look”.
Regarding misleading use of the word ”kasumi”, I wish ”migaki” was used more often in this context. It means ”polished” and I’m sure I’ve seen some retailers use it.
Re: Hongasumi vs kasumi
Part of it is marketing and designation, part is the quality of the iron cladding, part is laminating technique vs. prelamination, part is F&F/QC, part is polishing, and so on.
A Smith's designation of Hongasumi is not standardized, and will change between firms (and Smiths within the same firm). With a couple of exceptions, the Hongasumi will cost more than the Kasumi version of the same knife.
Basically, you'll have to research each company, if you want to know their difference.
In my case, I look for 2 things when considering a Hongasumi knife. F&F and quality of cladding. No one likes cutting their hand on a spine, the balance should be better than it's Kasumi counterpart, and the cladding should grain finely and relatively easily when sharpening to make it quicker. Outside of that and quality of core steel, take your pick.
A Smith's designation of Hongasumi is not standardized, and will change between firms (and Smiths within the same firm). With a couple of exceptions, the Hongasumi will cost more than the Kasumi version of the same knife.
Basically, you'll have to research each company, if you want to know their difference.
In my case, I look for 2 things when considering a Hongasumi knife. F&F and quality of cladding. No one likes cutting their hand on a spine, the balance should be better than it's Kasumi counterpart, and the cladding should grain finely and relatively easily when sharpening to make it quicker. Outside of that and quality of core steel, take your pick.
Re: Hongasumi vs kasumi
There are Firms that will use it as a marketing term, but those are easily seen through.
I agree with Limpet regarding the use of Migaki vs. Kasumi.
I agree with Limpet regarding the use of Migaki vs. Kasumi.
Re: Hongasumi vs kasumi
There are also things like Watetsu, old ship iron, and so forth, but that's for a different thread.
Re: Hongasumi vs kasumi
Thanks for the helpful comments. Seems like the bottom line is, the terms themselves don’t have universal meanings and a per-vendor research effort is required. That was probably what caused my confusion- seeing the terms used inconsistently.
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RamenMonster69
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Re: Hongasumi vs kasumi
Functionally speaking is there much in the difference in quality of the usability of the cutting edge between the two? Often times the steel type seems the same. I see how things like cladding can matter for a knife used everyday, but maybe not an esoteric knife in most western kitchens.
This is something I've wondered. When you see things like usubas and debas priced at about 100 bucks plus between these two grades, I wonder if its worth going for the absolute best you can afford. On something like a 240 gyuto it makes a lot of sense given its used in making almost every meal. For knives necessary to very specific tasks, but not used day to day, I question it. At the same time I've ready a bad traditional single bevel knife can perform at a level that it makes it a near waste of money.
This is something I've wondered. When you see things like usubas and debas priced at about 100 bucks plus between these two grades, I wonder if its worth going for the absolute best you can afford. On something like a 240 gyuto it makes a lot of sense given its used in making almost every meal. For knives necessary to very specific tasks, but not used day to day, I question it. At the same time I've ready a bad traditional single bevel knife can perform at a level that it makes it a near waste of money.