first time sharpening “good” steel

Proper user technique and care is essential to enjoying these high performance knives to their fullest while keeping edge damage to a minimum. Learn how here.
Cowboy Dan
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:15 am

first time sharpening “good” steel

Post by Cowboy Dan »

I wanted to gear this post towards the novice knife sharpener, such as myself. I’ll be using terms in the way I understand them so correct me if needed, I’m here to learn. As of recently I acquired my first two whetstones, the chosera 400 and 800, after learning on a near pocket sized stone from ace hardware. I’ve been practicing on cheap stainless with some good and some udderly embarrassing results. But after I had a go with my MAC ultimate chef knife I had a crushing realization. Cheap steel is simply hard to sharpen. I felt immense disappointment after killing myself for weeks trying to just get a knife to cleanly cut paper. With that said I believe it to be a crucial building block in the foundation of my freehand sharpening. At first I was shocked at how easily I could overproduce a burr. Nailing that first perfect burr on a hateful knife is a transformative experience to say the least. You can and will struggle with making even bevels, it’s really a matter of understanding the movements and pressure you’re making while sharpening. One issue that plagued me was burr removal. Some steels do not want to let go of the wire, which I believe is because of how soft the steel is amongst many other nuanced factors (let’s not turn this into a metalurrgy discussion PLEASE lol). If I had not learned the hard way I most likely would’ve butchered the edge on a knife that has as much sentimental value as it was expensive; that knife being the chef knife I bought myself for culinary school. What I’m trying to convey is, take your time, it isn’t a race. For the last few months I felt like I’ve been trudging through quick sand trying to achieve the edge I desired. I was getting quite discouraged but I assure you when you’re ready and you sharpen your first decent knife you will be so SO glad you took the time to learn to crawl before you walked. It’s almost like making a run in a game of pool. You start to gain momentum and confidence then suddenly the table is cleared and you’re perfectly set up to slam the eight ball in. If done right the final result will be awe inspiring. I may have ended on an #800 stone and a strop (roughly 3000 grit) but good god! I’ve felt sharp knives but this one had bite like I’ve never felt before, like in your face scary kind of bite. Suffice to say I was grinning like a fool after it was all said and done. I’m sure this is a subject has been discussed many times over but I have no one else to share my excitement with. Thanks for reading :) I hope this helps someone out there.
“The road of excess leads to the palace of madness...You never know what is enough until you know what is more than enough”
User avatar
Jeff B
Posts: 14741
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:59 pm
Location: Louisville, Kentucky
Has thanked: 1954 times
Been thanked: 2324 times

Re: first time sharpening “good” steel

Post by Jeff B »

When starting this journey patience is probably the most important thing that will see you though to the break through.

You did well and congratulations, but remember, there is oh so much more in front of you too and it only gets better. ;)
If God wanted me to be a vegetarian he wouldn't have made animals taste so good.
nakneker
Posts: 2359
Joined: Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:37 am
Location: Taylor, Az
Has thanked: 185 times
Been thanked: 142 times

Re: first time sharpening “good” steel

Post by nakneker »

Cowboy Dan wrote: Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:59 pm I wanted to gear this post towards the novice knife sharpener, such as myself. I’ll be using terms in the way I understand them so correct me if needed, I’m here to learn. As of recently I acquired my first two whetstones, the chosera 400 and 800, after learning on a near pocket sized stone from ace hardware. I’ve been practicing on cheap stainless with some good and some udderly embarrassing results. But after I had a go with my MAC ultimate chef knife I had a crushing realization. Cheap steel is simply hard to sharpen. I felt immense disappointment after killing myself for weeks trying to just get a knife to cleanly cut paper. With that said I believe it to be a crucial building block in the foundation of my freehand sharpening. At first I was shocked at how easily I could overproduce a burr. Nailing that first perfect burr on a hateful knife is a transformative experience to say the least. You can and will struggle with making even bevels, it’s really a matter of understanding the movements and pressure you’re making while sharpening. One issue that plagued me was burr removal. Some steels do not want to let go of the wire, which I believe is because of how soft the steel is amongst many other nuanced factors (let’s not turn this into a metalurrgy discussion PLEASE lol). If I had not learned the hard way I most likely would’ve butchered the edge on a knife that has as much sentimental value as it was expensive; that knife being the chef knife I bought myself for culinary school. What I’m trying to convey is, take your time, it isn’t a race. For the last few months I felt like I’ve been trudging through quick sand trying to achieve the edge I desired. I was getting quite discouraged but I assure you when you’re ready and you sharpen your first decent knife you will be so SO glad you took the time to learn to crawl before you walked. It’s almost like making a run in a game of pool. You start to gain momentum and confidence then suddenly the table is cleared and you’re perfectly set up to slam the eight ball in. If done right the final result will be awe inspiring. I may have ended on an #800 stone and a strop (roughly 3000 grit) but good god! I’ve felt sharp knives but this one had bite like I’ve never felt before, like in your face scary kind of bite. Suffice to say I was grinning like a fool after it was all said and done. I’m sure this is a subject has been discussed many times over but I have no one else to share my excitement with. Thanks for reading :) I hope this helps someone out there.
You can share all you want here, fellow forum members have heard your story before but are happy to see others succeed too. It’s nice to know that everyone here had to start somewhere and like Jeff commented, there so much more to learn. Even the most experienced sharpener will tell you he’s still learning. I fell down the knife and stone rabbit hole myself earlier this year. I’m may have to google a “Knife addiction” program.
“The goal is to die with memories, not dreams.”
Cowboy Dan
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:15 am

Re: first time sharpening “good” steel

Post by Cowboy Dan »

Jeff B wrote: Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:36 pm When starting this journey patience is probably the most important thing that will see you though to the break through.

You did well and congratulations, but remember, there is oh so much more in front of you too and it only gets better. ;)
It absolutely is, learning to take my time and making mistakes has been an important lesson for me. I think it may have been you that said to get your knives as sharp as possible on your lower grits before you move on to the next stone.. not sure, may have been someone else, doesn’t matter, it was sound and wise advice. That mindset helped me get to a hair whittling edge the other night. I wrote the post before I tried it. I always thought that was something that could only be achieved at higher grits.. I’m in it to win it at this points. I appreciate you and nakneker for being so supportive right off the bat. I look forward to growing with you guys and contributing more to this forum.
“The road of excess leads to the palace of madness...You never know what is enough until you know what is more than enough”
Cowboy Dan
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:15 am

Re: first time sharpening “good” steel

Post by Cowboy Dan »

nakneker wrote: Thu Jun 21, 2018 12:15 am
Cowboy Dan wrote: Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:59 pm I wanted to gear this post towards the novice knife sharpener, such as myself. I’ll be using terms in the way I understand them so correct me if needed, I’m here to learn. As of recently I acquired my first two whetstones, the chosera 400 and 800, after learning on a near pocket sized stone from ace hardware. I’ve been practicing on cheap stainless with some good and some udderly embarrassing results. But after I had a go with my MAC ultimate chef knife I had a crushing realization. Cheap steel is simply hard to sharpen. I felt immense disappointment after killing myself for weeks trying to just get a knife to cleanly cut paper. With that said I believe it to be a crucial building block in the foundation of my freehand sharpening. At first I was shocked at how easily I could overproduce a burr. Nailing that first perfect burr on a hateful knife is a transformative experience to say the least. You can and will struggle with making even bevels, it’s really a matter of understanding the movements and pressure you’re making while sharpening. One issue that plagued me was burr removal. Some steels do not want to let go of the wire, which I believe is because of how soft the steel is amongst many other nuanced factors (let’s not turn this into a metalurrgy discussion PLEASE lol). If I had not learned the hard way I most likely would’ve butchered the edge on a knife that has as much sentimental value as it was expensive; that knife being the chef knife I bought myself for culinary school. What I’m trying to convey is, take your time, it isn’t a race. For the last few months I felt like I’ve been trudging through quick sand trying to achieve the edge I desired. I was getting quite discouraged but I assure you when you’re ready and you sharpen your first decent knife you will be so SO glad you took the time to learn to crawl before you walked. It’s almost like making a run in a game of pool. You start to gain momentum and confidence then suddenly the table is cleared and you’re perfectly set up to slam the eight ball in. If done right the final result will be awe inspiring. I may have ended on an #800 stone and a strop (roughly 3000 grit) but good god! I’ve felt sharp knives but this one had bite like I’ve never felt before, like in your face scary kind of bite. Suffice to say I was grinning like a fool after it was all said and done. I’m sure this is a subject has been discussed many times over but I have no one else to share my excitement with. Thanks for reading :) I hope this helps someone out there.
You can share all you want here, fellow forum members have heard your story before but are happy to see others succeed too. It’s nice to know that everyone here had to start somewhere and like Jeff commented, there so much more to learn. Even the most experienced sharpener will tell you he’s still learning. I fell down the knife and stone rabbit hole myself earlier this year. I’m may have to google a “Knife addiction” program.
That’s a relief! It’s getting a little ridiculous at this point because I’ve sharpened nearly my entire neighborhood’s kitchen knives lol plus some close chef buddies knives. I had the knife bug for minute but I’m actually a big axe enthusiast. I’ve been doing restoration and collecting for a few years now. I’m not sure if you’ve heard of the group axe junkies but I’m fairly active member there. Anyway I’m hoping I can start doing this for a couple restaurants I’m well connected with. Just have to keep at it and get some more equipment down the road, practice makes better!
“The road of excess leads to the palace of madness...You never know what is enough until you know what is more than enough”
jmcnelly85
Posts: 2657
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 8:59 pm
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 415 times

Re: first time sharpening “good” steel

Post by jmcnelly85 »

Being able to get a knife sharper than before instantly puts you into a realm where you are a better sharpener than about ninety percent of the population. Keep up the good work, there are plenty more A-HA! moments ahead.
gladius
Posts: 5295
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2017 7:59 pm
Has thanked: 780 times
Been thanked: 911 times

Re: first time sharpening “good” steel

Post by gladius »

Cowboy Dan wrote: Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:56 am ...I’m actually a big axe enthusiast. I’ve been doing restoration and collecting for a few years now. I’m not sure if you’ve heard of the group axe junkies but I’m fairly active member there.
---
Got a link? I am a Hults Bruk fan.
User avatar
Jeff B
Posts: 14741
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:59 pm
Location: Louisville, Kentucky
Has thanked: 1954 times
Been thanked: 2324 times

Re: first time sharpening “good” steel

Post by Jeff B »

Cowboy Dan wrote: Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:42 am
Jeff B wrote: Wed Jun 20, 2018 4:36 pm When starting this journey patience is probably the most important thing that will see you though to the break through.

You did well and congratulations, but remember, there is oh so much more in front of you too and it only gets better. ;)
...I think it may have been you that said to get your knives as sharp as possible on your lower grits before you move on to the next stone...
That is something that I have been preaching for a very long time. Glad it was a little tidbit that was able to help in your journey!
If God wanted me to be a vegetarian he wouldn't have made animals taste so good.
Cowboy Dan
Posts: 14
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:15 am

Re: first time sharpening “good” steel

Post by Cowboy Dan »

gladius wrote: Thu Jun 21, 2018 1:18 pm
Cowboy Dan wrote: Thu Jun 21, 2018 4:56 am ...I’m actually a big axe enthusiast. I’ve been doing restoration and collecting for a few years now. I’m not sure if you’ve heard of the group axe junkies but I’m fairly active member there.
---
Got a link? I am a Hults Bruk fan.
Just head over to facebook and search “axe junkies” you’ll be required to answer a few questions before you are accepted but they aren’t a big deal. Hultz makes some good stuff. I have a few swedish axes, vintage and new, I like em. Most stoked about my new tuatahi race axe coming in. Just got involved with timber sports. :D
“The road of excess leads to the palace of madness...You never know what is enough until you know what is more than enough”
Timothywoomb
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:05 pm
Location: Denmark
Contact:

first time sharpening “good” steel

Post by Timothywoomb »

Ok, So I finally did it. I got a band to agree to take me on. I'm only playing background rhythm, but I'm in a band and playing for the first time on a stage on Saturday. Any insight how to get past my jitters?
Carlo
Posts: 236
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:36 am
Location: NYC
Has thanked: 36 times
Been thanked: 26 times

Re: first time sharpening “good” steel

Post by Carlo »

Timothywoomb wrote: Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:21 am Ok, So I finally did it. I got a band to agree to take me on. I'm only playing background rhythm, but I'm in a band and playing for the first time on a stage on Saturday. Any insight how to get past my jitters?
Propranolol.
User avatar
Drewski
Posts: 1309
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:01 am
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Has thanked: 429 times
Been thanked: 46 times

Re: first time sharpening “good” steel

Post by Drewski »

Timothywoomb wrote: Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:21 am Ok, So I finally did it. I got a band to agree to take me on. I'm only playing background rhythm, but I'm in a band and playing for the first time on a stage on Saturday. Any insight how to get past my jitters?
Whiskey?
User avatar
Delboy
Posts: 226
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 12:55 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: first time sharpening “good” steel

Post by Delboy »

Nice! I had a similar journey, albeit years ago. Have you sharpened VG10 or SG2 yet?

(I'm also a looooong time member of Axe Junkies, but I haven't been on FB for about a year now)
"Now remember Rodney, he who dares..."
Josh Runyon
Posts: 10
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:27 pm

Re: first time sharpening “good” steel

Post by Josh Runyon »

Well I'm brand new at this and to say the least the learning curve is immense in the beginning. My next move is to go lower grit and leave the stropping until later after reading through this thread.
User avatar
Papou
Posts: 88
Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:20 am

Re: first time sharpening “good” steel

Post by Papou »

Dan , you will still have dissapointments at times and thats due to steel quallity and dont let that set you back :) , again a learning curve.
As for "To Strop Or Not to Strop" as some may ask ?? :) , i wouldnt finish off without stropping no more due to the satisfaction of the final result..
Fkrow
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:39 am
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: first time sharpening “good” steel

Post by Fkrow »

One technique that took me a long time to understand is the amount of pressure on the knife will greatly affect the burr size.

When starting on a dull knife we have a tendency to use high or moderate downward force on the blade, this makes a larger heavy burr which is sometimes difficult to remove. I found early on, the removal of that heavy burr with strokes parallel to the edge and then continue with the coarse stone with very light pressure will minimize the stubborn burr removal process.

Regards,
FK
timc247
Posts: 41
Joined: Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:39 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: first time sharpening “good” steel

Post by timc247 »

just keep at it, co workers think i'm great at sharpening but I know its a lifelong journey that even japanese knife makers still strive to improve. love the journey!
Grizzly
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu May 19, 2022 11:29 am
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: first time sharpening “good” steel

Post by Grizzly »

I started with an old Carborundum Sharpening Stone I must have ordered from a catalog while in VN. Sitting on guard duty, I'd use the machine gun oil for the M60 to lubricate it. It worked great on soft Kabars but was not so great on harder Puma fixed blades. It did a decent job on a bayonet also. Spent many an hour sitting along a small tributary to the Mekong River with that stone. Years later I bought some Arkansas stones and struggled with a Buck 110 trying to learn how to maintain the angle. Then came the Loray kit which came out years before Lansky. Lately, I found diamond plates and wished I'd had them years ago. I've also bought the Spyderco ceramics and am hoping I don't have to get into water stones with my first Japanese knife, a Takamura Chromax Santuku. Always something new to learn, but they are always getting a little bit sharper as the years go by. I love free hand now whereas in years gone by, I wondered if I'd ever get it.
Lloyd Harner
Posts: 353
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2017 2:59 pm
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 95 times

Re: first time sharpening “good” steel

Post by Lloyd Harner »

when i started making knives i thought i was good at sharpening (was not bad) then i started making kitchen knives then i was like wow thats sharp .... started making straight razors. that my friends is next level sharp. in the beginning i had some DMT sharpeners now i have stones and hones from 600 - 160000 grit and a few strops
Radar53
Posts: 1855
Joined: Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:44 am
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Has thanked: 354 times
Been thanked: 583 times

Re: first time sharpening “good” steel

Post by Radar53 »

Just getting back to the original post and the issue of removing difficult burrs. One of the techniques I use is to use edge-leading strokes for de-burring. This can take a bit of practice to get the "feel" of just where the edge is and I use heel to tip "sweeping" strokes down the length of the stone. You also need to monitor & be careful with pressure.

Some people are not to comfortable with edge-leading strokes, but it works very well for me.

HTH
Cheers Grant

Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not going to get you!!
Post Reply