Sharpening advice for back of the knife

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gladius
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Re: Sharpening advice for back of the knife

Post by gladius » Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:24 am

ken123 wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:32 am
gladius wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 2:28 am
ken123 wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:39 am
Can't complain about the stones used - 1k Nubatama gold and 5k Nubatama Bamboo. He demonstrates slice cutting, but the stones are capable of much better push cutting performance. Increased angular consistency would help a lot.

Sorry - sometimes I'm a bit too critical :)

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Ken
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His angular consistency looks good to me...I suppose one can say "Increased angular consistency would help a lot" to every sharpening video out there for there is always room for improvement.
True - we can all improve.

Look closely as he puts the knife to stone especially near the tip (~ 19 - 20 minutes into the video). He consistently falters a bit setting his angle near the tips.

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Ken
—-
It looks like he positions to find the bevel and follow it.

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Jeff B
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Location: Kentucky

Re: Sharpening advice for back of the knife

Post by Jeff B » Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:17 pm

ken123 wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:39 am
Can't complain about the stones used - 1k Nubatama gold and 5k Nubatama Bamboo. He demonstrates slice cutting, but the stones are capable of much better push cutting performance. Increased angular consistency would help a lot.

Sorry - sometimes I'm a bit too critical :)

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Ken
I'll definitely give you that.

I'd be the last to criticize his technique, he's a damn good sharpener. He helped me a lot to develop my skills over the years.
If God wanted me to be a vegetarian he wouldn't have made animals taste so good.

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ken123
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Re: Sharpening advice for back of the knife

Post by ken123 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:17 am

Jeff B wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:17 pm
ken123 wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:39 am
....
Sorry - sometimes I'm a bit too critical :)

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Ken
I'll definitely give you that.

...
Thanks!

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Ken

Thuja Magus
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Joined: Fri May 26, 2017 2:27 pm

Re: Sharpening advice for back of the knife

Post by Thuja Magus » Fri Aug 10, 2018 10:56 pm

From what I can see it’s maybe more of a burr that prevents push cutting with the amount of stropping strokes he did and it looked like he used a bit of pressure.

His angles look fine. Good video nonetheless.

I don’t think he uses those stones anymore preferring shaptons and naniwa gouken line.

t3chi3
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Re: Sharpening advice for back of the knife

Post by t3chi3 » Wed Aug 15, 2018 12:26 pm

Me and my newest Gyuto are happy we saw this thread :)

I finally sharpened that beast correctly. It was easy to see once I looked, the bevel was very thin at the back side of the knife. I had some flattening and then a lot of sharpening to do until I finally got a small burr on the other side.

kjpfo287
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Re: Sharpening advice for back of the knife

Post by kjpfo287 » Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:17 pm

Practice practice I don't switch hands and I find having less pressure and better angle control helps let the stones do the work once you have a slight burr stop and go up in grit on your stones I find you don't need as coarse of stones for most steels i.e. I have some R2 blades and I start them kn a suita 1000 and it cuts great and leaves very little scratches also the cktg strip kit helps to for finale phase of sharpening

salemj
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Re: Sharpening advice for back of the knife

Post by salemj » Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:16 pm

fracuo wrote:
Sun Aug 05, 2018 4:11 am
Thank you all!! A few comments/ideas:

-On pressure: I don't think I use tons of it. I definitely use less than the "4-6 lbs" one reads about around, and I start from a 500 grit, typically, for knives I don't use often (like when I come back at my parents and sharpen theirs), and on the 1200 for my own. Perhaps it could be that my pressing fingers are quite close to the edge?
-On hands: how difficult would it be to train my left hand, if you guys tried it? Is it something to be attempted or better avoid that?
-On rocking/moving: I did find at some point that my body was rocking with the knife movement, and started leaning on one knee to avoid that.
-On the beater knife: Know any cheap ones where it's easy to see if one makes a mistake? I imagine they would need to either be quite dark or quite shiny...

Basically, I could try the following: see if I can train my left hand, less pressure and potentially get a LED light. On the finishes... as my best professor once said: I am not happy to just do one or the other :P I think, for me, trying new things (for example, trying to mirror polish some knives) is important to remain interested (also not all my knives nor my edges are mirror polished!)
I've read several forum discussions about the importance of relaxing your body and focusing on the knife. I would say that your "compensation" for rocking/moving may be precisely the wrong tactic. But maybe not. The reason I say it is probably bad is that any way you look at it (from a mechanical standpoint), the LAST thing you want to do is to try to avoid moving any part of your body, or overly stabilizing any part. The way you will get maximal control, coordination, and comfort is to approach the motion from the goal of how you want to move the knife/object, NOT how you want to move your body. This is pretty fundamental in any advanced study of motion in performance, such as musical instrument performance and even various competitive sports. The more you try to control you body rather than controlling the object you're in contact with, the more you are just working against yourself and actually inhibiting your control and precision (not to mention feedback).

From this perspective, the core issue is obvious: your angle is dipping and becoming too acute at some part of the stroke. I would suggest you "sharpen" on a non-abrasive surface with a dull knife (or a knife you know has a way more obtuse angle, so that you're not actually hitting the edge). Go faster than usual. Watch your motion as you "pretend" to sharpen "quickly," looking carefully for when the spine of the knife dips toward the stone. It will likely happen when the knife is furthest away from you, or when you are changing directions in the stroke, but it may also happen when you hit a certain point along the edge, such as near the heel or tip, in part of the stroke. Once you find this, just focus on preventing the knife from doing it—again, don't focus on body compensation, just focus on controlling the knife.

As for switching hands: I think it is pretty easy. Lots of people seem to be able to pick it up very quickly. I would say it is "worth" attempting because, well, why not?! However, I don't think the "goal" is to switch hands. Plenty of people do, and plenty don't.
~Joe

Comments: I'm short, a home cook, prefer lighter, thinner blades, and own mostly Konosukes but have used over a dozen brands.

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lsboogy
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Re: Sharpening advice for back of the knife

Post by lsboogy » Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:47 pm

ken123 wrote:
Tue Aug 07, 2018 1:39 am
Can't complain about the stones used - 1k Nubatama gold and 5k Nubatama Bamboo. He demonstrates slice cutting, but the stones are capable of much better push cutting performance. Increased angular consistency would help a lot.

Sorry - sometimes I'm a bit too critical :)

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Ken
That's the best advice you will receive. Great stones and inconsistent angle produce bad results. Just practice - I'm playing with 10 degree edges right now - take it slow and easy

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