Ginsan steel on natural stones

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kjpfo287
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Ginsan steel on natural stones

Post by kjpfo287 » Sat Feb 09, 2019 10:19 am

Hey guys was just hoping to gets some tips advice and or pointers on taking my ginsan blades on natural stones ...obviously my carbons are a dream on them but am having trouble getting the same edge on my ginsan steel blades.....thanks as always Chef Peter

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lsboogy
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Re: Ginsan steel on natural stones

Post by lsboogy » Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:49 pm

AEBL, CPM145 and Swedish Stainless are very close to Ginsan, and I have had good luck sharpening them (I don't have any Ginsan blades) on soft naturals. I don't tend to pull out any hard stones any more - I like the feedback from soft stuff, but I think a lot of folk pull different stones for different steels. I know that Mark sharpens with Shaptons (hard stones) and I would guess he would be a good one to comment on sharpening Ginsan. Biggest thing I can think of is the stone may be loading - do you get good mud on your naturals, or does the steel bind into the stones? That's what happens if I don't let some of my soft stuff soak some water in before using them. My ocean blue stone I tend to stick a wet towel on for 10 or 15 minutes to help avoid loading (it's a medium hard natural) and then I spray a lot until I get some mud started - maybe I should try a nagura (have a few in the drawer - have not used one for 10 years) to see if that helps.

Maybe Ken has something to add here as well, but I can get a pretty good edge on even my CPM154 addict with a Monzen if I let it get some water into the surface (it's lacquered on all other surfaces, so I do the towel on the surface on that as well - a quick run under the faucet after 10 minutes of towel and then a spray or six and it is ready to get muddy

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Kit Craft
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Re: Ginsan steel on natural stones

Post by Kit Craft » Sat Feb 09, 2019 3:32 pm

Ginan, while an easy stainless to sharpen is still stainless and as such will take more work to put an equivalent edge on than carbon. Also, Ginsan seems to take an aggressive edge for me. I don't much like taking it beyond 5k because at that point it seems to lose almost all bite either off the stones or shortly thereafter. Not like AEBL, which takes to refinement really well and early on in grit. Seems to not hold an aggressive edge, for tomatoes for example, as long between touch ups either. To me Ginsan is more like Blue steel and AEBL like white.

As for naturals, they don't abrade stainless as well as carbon. Not that there will be a world of difference with this steel but it will be there. When we say that Ginsan is carbon like, we do tend to exaggerate that a bit. Just be diligent. Make sure you are without burr and put a few more passes into it than you would carbon. Also, be realistic with refinement goals.

As for which naturals, I've not found one that would not abrade Ginsan just fine so I'd not worry too much about that. However, I'd not take it much beyond Aizu or Tsushima and maybe a coarser Hakka, maybe. That is just me though. You get up around Yaginoshima Asagi and it seems to lose all bite.

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lsboogy
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Re: Ginsan steel on natural stones

Post by lsboogy » Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:11 pm

I took a few minutes and looked at CPM154 as well. It seems very close to Ginsan in material content but with a finer grain structure I have a couple CPM154 knives (the Addict I bought last year is a CPM154 steel), so I put my addict on a few soft Jnats and it is a beast to get a wire on - but then I looked close (40x loupe) and the wire is really really narrow when it forms (took forward - into the edge - strokes one at a time and looked at the thing after each stroke. The wire on the addict never got big, so it your feeling with your thumb for a burr like I do, you will probably miss it unless you are good at finding a very small wire.

Knife took a great edge, but I think some of the stainless high carbon stuff (over 1% carbon - AEBL is only 0.75 or so) is hard to figure out unless you are used to it. I would still be on the stone if I had not looked close

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ken123
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Re: Ginsan steel on natural stones

Post by ken123 » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:03 am

Well it is roughly 1% carbon and 14% chromium so not exceptionally different than other stainless knife steels like vg10. It should take to most naturals pretty well. For starters what naturals do you have? I would be careful not to go too acute on edge angles trying about 15° per side for starters. Tajima should work well (a personal favorite) Meara etc. Experiment with what you have. If you wish, adding a bit (drop) of cbn to your natural slurries should make for a more aggressive cutting action. I would go for 2 micron.
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