Nubatama Green Ume 220 brick

[lsboogy]

Okay, I have my tail between my legs. All the folk out there who constantly and consistently advise us to get a coarse stone are..... right. I had my line knife chipped last weekend at my second job by my nemesis - he rocks and turns while doing it and has chipped my knives on more than 1 occasion. I bought a Richmond GT in AUS8 specifically to avoid having one of my treasures ruined, but am getting more and more attached to the thing - it is a great line knife - cheap enough so I would not cry if it had bad things happen to it, but it is a really nice little knife that takes a likin and keeps on tickin. The edge hold up well during line work, and I have it with me every weekend on the job (learning to work in a pro environment - I get free schooling on a real high volume line with high end food)

The chip was about 1mm deep by 3mm wide, so I though I would try a coarse stone after seeing everyone else praising them. I always thought they were just stones that were in line with the old Arkasas stones my dad loved and I never use (slow cutting, hard, no feedback things that my dad had soaked with 3 in 1 oil and other things over the years - I keep them to remember, but would never use one on a good blade). But this chip was a pretty nasty one, and would really make work difficult, so I looked and thought I might get the big Imanishi 220 brick (I like big thick stones that will last a lifetime and I can pass down), but it was out of stock and I wanted to try a coarse stone to get ready for this weekend - Final Four is here and Rick has three diners on Saturday for 380 people, so this is going to be a long day and I wanted to have my line knife ready for serving. So I talked with Ken (ken123) and he set me up with a stone he knew I would like - Ume 220 green brick. I got it today, and after a 15 minute soak I j just started using it. It's soft enough for me to find the angle easily, and turns out some mud so it feels like a much finer stone and has the smooth feedback when you have the knife at the correct angle. It took about 2 minutes to reprofiled the blade and give a good starting angle - that would be 20 minutes on my 1K stones from past experience.

Maybe I need to listen more to the lovers of coarse stones, but I agree with them now. Hing is a soft stone that cuts fairly hard steel as fast as a file, but leaves a much better edge. It took less than 15 minutes to get the knife ready for Saturday, and I was thinking more on the lines of 30-40 minutes with the 1k and Monzen stones. Thank you all for convincing me to try a coarse stone, maybe I will get an even coarser one at some point in time, but this 220 is a fast cutter and has great feel for me. I'm ready for Saturday

[gladius]

Glad your new tool worked well for you. I have that stone and it is very nice and as you describe, very pleasant to work with.

[Altadan]

This is a timely post, man.
I just came back from a dinner invitation, where I was asked (in advance) to sharpen the man's knife, and show him how things are done.
He's got a fancy set of Wustofs epicure, and a Wustof brand tri-stone sharpening set. I looked it up and figured I best bring my own SG500 and SP2K.
As things turned out we ended up eating and drinking first....
Where was this story going? Oh! Coarse stones. Yes.
Ever since I got my Shspton 500, I thought that's as coarse as I'll ever need. But boy, that Wustof of his was dull, and it was not soft! I didn't bother trying to teach too much. The evening was late, and the kids (and wife) needed to get to bed, so I sent him Peter Nowlan's Sharpening School, and on to work
Love g story short, I had to do a spell on his tiny 280 grit stone (the tri-stone has 280, 1k, and 3k, all for $49.99 at Williams Sonoma). That thing was soft!
After I got a Burr a did an unorthodox move and switched back to my SG500 to remove the burr and demonstrate sharpness. Tomato tricks we're hugely impressive a and the evening finished well.
But wow, I did not expect a kinfe to be do difficult to sharpen. Maybe I too should look into getting a seriously coarse stone, at the very least for friends' sakes

[willc68]

My 220 Black stone from Ken is one of my best course stones.
It cuts fast and the finish it leaves is much better than some other 220 stones I have tried.

In the future I would like to try some of his even lower grit stones.

[Seattle_Ben]

FWIW I was greatly helped by just committing to some "coarse stone courage" and going for it with the really coarse stones. Peter Nowlan really advocates it and I've found as long as I really back off the pressure with them I'm very happy. I often start with a SP320 and if I've got some really hideous stainless from a friend or family I'm less and less shy about a few passes with the 140 flattening plate before I go to the 320.

[ken123]

Thanks for an excellent review!

I really do appreciate using coarse stones. The 220 is an excellent choice. For even more speed I also like the 180 and 120. For coarser work , the 60 and 24 grit stones are excellent choices when you really need to move some metal. The tri-hone type stones are notoriously slow stones. There is more to it than just looking at the grit of a stone.

I really think of these stones as time machines. You can putter around with less coarse stones like the 320s and above, but the speed is slow. The Atoma 140 makes quick work of things but leaves a coarser scratch pattern - especially compared to a 220, so in the long run a 220 saves you the work of removing the 140 diamond scratch pattern.While stones like the 400 and 320 Nubatamas and Chocera 400s are all good stones, even coarser grits are a real strong foundation, especially for all the 'knives from hell' that your friends bring you particularly when you are a new sharpener.

---
Ken

[lsboogy]

Ken - if you would, maybe start giving some thought and posts about hard versus soft stones. You know I like soft stones (easy for me to find an angle and the mud always lets me know what is going on), but many find a hard stone easier for their personal style. I started with a Kikuichi 1K and a Kitayama 8K as my first Japanese whetstones, and they were my basic stones for 15+ years. I cannot for the life of me get a decent edge on a shapton or other hard stone - so my many long chats with you have given me a great bit of knowledge I would never have obtained on my own.
If you would, start a thread about hard/soft stones, and muddy stuff as well. We all need to speak the same language - it's not just grit for me, my basement stone is aa 320 grit stone that is way to hard for me to get what I want in feedback. But my 220 Nub is easy for me to use

[Seattle_Ben]

Thanks for an excellent review!

I really do appreciate using coarse stones. The 220 is an excellent choice. For even more speed I also like the 180 and 120. For coarser work , the 60 and 24 grit stones are excellent choices when you really need to move some metal. The tri-hone type stones are notoriously slow stones. There is more to it than just looking at the grit of a stone.

I really think of these stones as time machines. You can putter around with less coarse stones like the 320s and above, but the speed is slow. The Atoma 140 makes quick work of things but leaves a coarser scratch pattern - especially compared to a 220, so in the long run a 220 saves you the work of removing the 140 diamond scratch pattern.While stones like the 400 and 320 Nubatamas and Chocera 400s are all good stones, even coarser grits are a real strong foundation, especially for all the 'knives from hell' that your friends bring you particularly when you are a new sharpener.

---
Ken

Care to elaborate or quantify how much more aggressive the plates are than a comparable stone? It's actually a thing that's been on my mind and here it is being discussed.