Naniwa vs Shapton stones.

[Radar53]

It sounds like you've jumped into a tumble clothes dryer with a whole lot of different clothes in it and you're overwhelmed for choice.

I like the suggestion of a combo stone. Like others I have a Cerax 1k / 3k combo which I use mostly when away from home. It's a great stone and a great place to start. It benefits from a short soak so chuck it ini some water while you get the rest of your stuff set up and then you're ready to go.

If you go for that and also the CKTG 140 plate for flattening it would be a great stake in the ground and at least you would then have a start. It also makes for a very economical starting point.

[Insnekamkze86]

Thanks for the info I was looking at those Cerax combo stones but was curious at low lower grit stone that i could pair with that would be a good as well. But couldn't one use a CKTG 140 or atoma 140 plate or the pink 220 brick, not the pop rocks one be used for sharpening or would a different stone be a bwtrwr pairing?

[lsboogy]

Radar is giving you great advice. Get a flattening plate and a combo stone for starters. When you are familiar with sharpening freehand, then start moving to other stones. It's a relatively cheap and absolutely great introduction to sharpening
You can always start adding other stones to your collection (some have dozens or even 100's), but you will find stones that feel right and do what you want - we all seem to keep finding new things in this rabbit hole. Take your time and learn what you like. Call Mark or Ken if you need some sage advice - and welcome

[Cigarguy]

Some great advice here.

Fairly new to sharpening myself. Only been at it for 3 years. Up to about 3 months ago I limited myself to 3 stones (2 Arkansas stones and 1 Japanese finishing whetstone). I concentrated, honed, practice, practice, practice and practice.....technique. Intellectually I knew it wasn't rocket science but it was frustrating getting a duller edge after sharpening. I was able to quickly get a functional working edge that was as good as most "professional" sharpeners around here and I can do this for free and in minutes. No more $10/knife, travel time and parking.

Practice, practice and practice some more. A few months ago something clicked as my sharpening skills went to the next level. I've gone beyond a "functional" edge on a cheap knife to a razor sharp finish on most any knife so long as the steel is able to handle it. Sharpening for me is no longer a chore but have become an enjoyable Zen experience. I love it. I've gone from 3 to 20+ and counting stones. My collection of Japanese blades is also growing rapidly. Steels beyond VG10 no longer intimidate me.

Best lesson I learned on these forums is practice. Don't overthink it, not rocket science just rubbing metal on a stone. Practice. It's me and not the stone. Practice. Brand name doesn't matter. It's the person rubbing the stone not the stone.

With a 1000 grit stone you should be able to put on a very functional and working edge. Beyond that is just gravy. 1 stone to start should be sufficient for a person who maintains their knives. 2 stones (300/400 grit and a 1000ish grit) is plenty to learn on. With time and some practice it will be Naniwa AND Shapton not one or the other. When sharpening a knife, I'll let the knife tell me what stone(s) to use based on the knife's steel, condition and intended use.

[Insnekamkze86]

I understand sir thank you

[Insnekamkze86]

I think I'm now trying to decide between a Cerax 1k/6k combo or a shapton pro 1k and 5k stone along with a 140 diamond plate with either set I decide on.

Yes I know it's really apple to oranges decision. Since one is a soaking stone that's kind of soft vs a splash and go stone that's much harder. Each set will cost about the same, maybe like a 10 to 20 dollar difference but not much. Since if I go with Shapton pros they will be the ones directly from Japan that goes by a name that starts with a k from Amazon which are a little cheaper than the pros on CKTG site. Where as the Cerax I belive are the cheapest I've seen on CKTG site.

[Cigarguy]

Unless the prices are drastically cheaper I would choose to support a small local (in country) business rather than a large corporation. It also helps that the local business is known for great customer service and have a great forum help me learn.

I have a couple combo stones, not a fan of them. Even dirt cheap I regret getting them. Shapton pro 1K and 5K all day long. Much more versatile and a better product in my books.

[Insnekamkze86]

Why don't you like combo stones. The Cerax combo stone I found is about 20 to 30 dollars cheaper and the Shapton pros about 10 cheaper

I've always looked at Shapton but could never decide for some reason.

[Insnekamkze86]

Has anyone have experience with the Shapton pro 1500 vs the 1k stone by chance?

[Radar53]

A couple of things here for me.
1) Both options here are available from GKTG so either is from a "small local (in country) business rather than a large corporation."

2) Dirt cheap stones" are usually just that. However the Cerax combo stones are very good quality stones that many forumites like.

3) If I have understood you correctly, you are relatively new to sharpening, so at this early stage you might find both hard and high grit stones a bit of a challenge. Most people learning find it a bit more difficult to "feel" the edge on harder or higher grit stones and struggling with that can become really frustrating and disappointing while you're trying to learn. It took me quite some time to get consistency & accuracy on higher grit stones. To me they felt quite "slippery" & I struggled to feel when the bevel was properly on the stone. I managed to un-sharpen quite a few knives

So I would still suggest either the Cerax 280 / 1.5 or the Cerax 1k / 3k. Against the Shaptons for price they are $60 & $65 respectively vs $105 for the Pro's. Difference $40 or $45, which is a long way to getting third stone down the track, once you have got some time on the stones and some insight into what your preferences might be.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[Papou]

Starting to get a bit like the Fargo series on Netflix lol , Mate the only way you are going to satisfy your query is to go out and buy some stones that have been mostly recomended and 'Start " your journey.
That dont work ?? then like us again " hand in pocket and buy more "..
You'll get there ..

[Igalor]

Shapton glass 500 (thicker version). Shapton pro 2k. That will work on anything, all the time, theyll outlast almost anything as well, they feel good, full splash and go, compact, fast, and a tremendous value.

[lsboogy]

I think I'm now trying to decide between a Cerax 1k/6k combo or a shapton pro 1k and 5k stone along with a 140 diamond plate with either set I decide on.

Yes I know it's really apple to oranges decision. Since one is a soaking stone that's kind of soft vs a splash and go stone that's much harder. Each set will cost about the same, maybe like a 10 to 20 dollar difference but not much. Since if I go with Shapton pros they will be the ones directly from Japan that goes by a name that starts with a k from Amazon which are a little cheaper than the pros on CKTG site. Where as the Cerax I belive are the cheapest I've seen on CKTG site.

If you just want to save a couple bucks, be my guest. But part of the reason most of us buy most or all of their stuff here is advice, service and great quality merchandise from a small business. We freely give what advice we can, but you will also discover this to be a community. Pass arounds of very high quality knives, services from blade folk (thinning and handles) - sometimes freely offered things (I just got some great chilis) - if you choose to participate within the community and not just gather advice and go get things from Amazon, there are other rewards. This place is a bunch of chefs and knife nuts who rely on the whole community - we all support Mark and Susan as they give us this space freely.

[Insnekamkze86]

Alright alright alright I wasn't trying to offend anyone but was asking for advise as to which all has been given to me and I appreciate that and I'm grateful, but I also look at all vendors for pricing not just one for buying tools and things from.

I understand that this a community forum that tries and does help people. For advise and also for buying decisions and etc, while supporting the CKTG site.

I was given sound advise on what I should do for the question that I had in my mind about buying new stones for sharpening knives. And I was super undecided on what I wanted since like everything else in this world there's a million options to chose from.

From seeing videos, reading forums, and reviews between these two brands for splash and goes. Shapton would be the better option for me. If I wanted a different route that might be also cheaper up front to get a combo stone and a flattening plate. Which I will need for any water stones that chose anyways.

All I need to do now is decide on what I'm going to do for the brand of stones, and where I will be purchase the stones from, and inform you guys what I got from the help of this forum and if I liked them or not. For my daily needs for what I was looking for.

Thank you all very much that have responded to my forum post to a question that I had had about two brands of stones. Take care.

[nakneker]

Alright alright alright I wasn't trying to offend anyone but was asking for advise as to which all has been given to me and I appreciate that and I'm grateful, but I also look at all vendors for pricing not just one for buying tools and things from.

I understand that this a community forum that tries and does help people. For advise and also for buying decisions and etc, while supporting the CKTG site.

I was given sound advise on what I should do for the question that I had in my mind about buying new stones for sharpening knives. And I was super undecided on what I wanted since like everything else in this world there's a million options to chose from.

From seeing videos, reading forums, and reviews between these two brands for splash and goes. Shapton would be the better option for me. If I wanted a different route that might be also cheaper up front to get a combo stone and a flattening plate. Which I will need for any water stones that chose anyways.

All I need to do now is decide on what I'm going to do for the brand of stones, and where I will be purchase the stones from, and inform you guys what I got from the help of this forum and if I liked them or not. For my daily needs for what I was looking for.

Thank you all very much that have responded to my forum post to a question that I had had about two brands of stones. Take care.

I stopped buying solely on price point a long time ago. Ive learned, that for me, customer service is paramount. I also respect people who work their butts off and run a small business, in this case Mark and Sue. It’s nice to see people who have an idea, work really hard, accept risk and give their dream a chance to materialize. I buy most of my items from here, they don’t sell it all so I use other vendors too but when I can I support CKTG.

What sealed the deal for me was a cutting board I bought here. The Arizona climate worked it over even after oiling it every other day and after a couple weeks it cracked. I sent Mark an email and a pic and by the end of the day he had a replacement headed my way. He also let me keep the cracked board, which my daughter uses now. That kind of a gesture and service creates a life long customer.

The forum is a community, that doesn’t mean it obligates you to buy here. It makes sense to me that if you come here for advice, get many of your questions answered and few things to think about thrown your way that it would encourage you to support the system that just gave to you. The prices are competitive here, in many cases they are the best on a given item. Places like this don’t operate for free, I don’t know of another kitchen knife forum that is as friendly and helpful.

To each their own, that’s just my thoughts. Different strokes for different folks.

[Insnekamkze86]

If I'm able to get the product from CKTG and if it's what I'm looking for yes of course I would buy it from there and I agree with supporting small business. And it's great to hear that company has great customer service.
And yes different strokes for different folks.

[lsboogy]

Insnek - no one would think less of you if you buy stuff from others (I still buy knives from a friend in Tokyo, and my mom got me another nenohi from Korin for my birthday last year), we are encouraging you to support CKTG. That's how strongly many of us feel about this place - I buy stones from Ken and get work done by Chris and Ben, and my next knife is coming from Carter Hopkins (all forum members) - but I buy lots of stuff from CKTG as well. And Mark and Susan have the best customer service around, and you can call and talk to Mark direct about things and get guidance you will not get from Amazon.
Remember that a knife, when cared for, can last lifetimes. I have a few Sabatier blades from pre WW1 and most of my Sabs are from the 50's. I started buying Japanese knives in the 80's, and if you look at my first Kikuichi (30+ years old) it has lost a couple mm in height, but still does the job. A $300 knife that lasts 30 years is a $10 a year investment.

[Insnekamkze86]

Okay thanks trying to decide on what to do for waterstones now

[Insnekamkze86]

Hello to everyone thank you for all your advice recommendations and opinions. I am sorry I haven't been on here to report what I ended up getting it been a couple of years I think not sure.

I ended up buying suehiro stones not all at once but I ended up grabbing a cerax 320 cerax 1k Rika 5k and w8 8k stone along with a atoma 400 plate and a suehiro sink bridge. Love the 1k and Rika stone don't really care for the 320 very gritty stone that's super slow and dishes super fast. The 8k stone is way to soft for me and can gouge if I'm not careful. Overall I'm happy with the stone but now looking to try n get a set of splash and goes.

Since my Rika only takes 3 mins to soak and my w8 8k only 2 mins might keep them otherwise going to try n get a shapton kuromaku 1k,2k,5k, and 12k and maybe a 320 to replace the cerax 320. Before that I am probably going to grab a nano Cloth hone along with diamond paste at half or quarter micron mesh since I still don't have a strop and been doing okay but realize I need one lol.

The suehiro stones does the best work on vg10, aus10, and other stainless steels that arnt as hard. It fares well with aogami super steel. And will work for sld steel but gives me the most trouble and the longest to so on the stones. But had no issues sharpening hap40 on them that I borrowed from a buddy once.

I found a set of naniwa gouken kagayaki stones for cheap on Amazon but since they're basicly a super stone and there's not much love for them decided on the shaptons. Basically I want a harder stone and a non soaking stone. Where my head is at with stones lol. I had a set of dalstrong stones which were nice and big and super hard but they cut super slow and not really good quality so I got rid of them and stuck with the suehiro for sharpening duties.

[FisherMAn1298]

If you are looking at a two sided stone (great way to get into this stuff for cheap) you might look at the Cerax 1K/3K stone
https://www.chefknivestogo.com/ceraxcombo1k3k.html
I have purchased several of these for my neices and nephew. Each kid gets a gyuto, cutting board, and one of these upon graduation from college. They also get a basic knife skills class and a sharpening class from me.
The stone is not really soft, and will cut very hard steel well. It also has enough feedback so that you can find the edge easily. Thy require a short soak, and I have a spray bottle handy to minimize loading. And they produce a better edge than any factory knife (Shun/Global/Dalstrong etc) comes with. A 3K edge done well will do great prep sessions and is capable of most of the tricks you see in videos.
If you can learn to freehand on that stone, all the rest will be refining to what you prefer. As Peter Nowlan says, "Master the 1K". Having a 1K/3K or 1K/6K combination stone and knowing how to use it will let you have knives sharper than almost anyone.

Be advised Master The 1k was a phrase invented by the one and only Ken Schwartz. In fact, it's part of his CKTG signature. Just look at any of his posts and there it is.