Another Stone-Flattening thread! Shapton Glass questions

[SeanOttawa]

Hi All,

I think that this is my first post, but I've been lurking for a long time!
I live in Ottawa, On, Canada, and I have started to do a lot more sharpening over the past year, and have recently started sharpening friends' knives. The result is that I am putting some wear on my stones, which means that I am starting to look more carefully at flattening.

My stone collection is
220: Knifewear store brand (I would not recommend this stone, but it is my only 220, so I have nothing to compare it to)
320: Shapton Glass (SG320)
800: King Deluxe
1200: King Deluxe
4000: King (on base)
2000/5000: Taidea combination stone ($20 Amazon purchase, just to see what a "cheap" stone actually FELT like
Leather strop w/ green compound
Bare Leather strop
(+ some small cheap diamond plates that I was using to knock the sharp corners off the flattened stones, in the images below)

What you don't see in the list is a flattening stone (Atoma 140, or the big flatteners w/ grooves, etc...)
I have been using coarse sandpaper (60 or 100) either on a heavy duty workbench (photos below), or on glass/granite plates.

The King stones are easy to dish, and easy to flatten with sandpaper. They are "old" purchases, and they work well enough for me to keep using them until they NEED to be replaced.

The 220 and 320 are "new" purchases. I love the SG 320. It is aggressive, but leaves a very polite scratch pattern, MUCH less scary than from the Knifewear 220, which isn't nice to use. (Casually looking for another very coarse stone...)

Well, last night I decided that it was time to flatten. You can see from the images below, that there was a multi-colored pile of stone removed, but I was really challenged by the SG320. It was VERY hard to flatten, and I actually gave up for now.

SO... My question. Is this the reality with the SG320? Is it hard/dense enough to make the sandpaper solution too difficult?
How would the SG320 respond to being sharpened with one of the various grooved flattening stones? (cheaper than diamond plates!)

As I start to think about adding more stones to the collection, will I see the same problem?
Are Shapton Pro stones hard enough to not allow sandpaper flattening?
I expect that the Green Brick Of Joy would be easy to flatten.
What about a Snow White 8k? What about Kitayama 6k?
I expect that a King 6k or 8K would also be "soft" and easy to flatten.


The sandpaper is an easy solution for the King stones which seem relatively soft, but the SG might be too hard. Is this expected? Should I invest in an Atoma 140? Or CKTG 140? or get an Atoma 140 pad and mount it on something (1" thick maple or oak, or an aluminum plate?)

Because I am in Canada, the shipping on the CKTG 140 is more than the plate. I can find an Atoma 140 pad on Amazon.ca for ~$75 + tax.

As most people on this forum know, there is ALWAYS something else to buy. I'm trying to NOT do that! I have stones, that work well-enough, and can easily sharpen all of my knives and any knives that I have been given to sharpen. But, the SG320 might be the stone that will trigger an evolution to the collection.

Thanks!
Sean


p.s. home chef, know how to sharpen, have white #1 Nakiri, Kramer 52100 8", SG2 Santoku, various VG10 (Gyuto, Petty, Honesuki, Santoku), various German steel, etc...

As much as I "want" to get more knives and stones, I don't "need" any more right now. I am exerting the will power required to slowly accumulate other items only when I NEED them.

Any recommendations for a "next stone"???

[SeanOttawa]

Images below.

Didn't get far on the SG320 with the sandpaper!!

And another little question: When you flatten stones, do you COMPLETELY flatten, or do you leave stones like the KING pictured below? which is a hint to work on the edges a bit before doing full strokes across the middle??

Sean

[jacko9]

I gave up wet/dry sandpaper and bought the Atoma 140 and haven't regretted it at all.

[jmcnelly85]

I’ve used atoma’s and cktg’s 140 plates and strongly recommend both. I completely flatten the stone without targeting any specific area. Targeted flattening can produce irregular wear, leaving you with a stone that isn’t flat. Try making a grid pattern with pencil on the entire stone surface and flatten til it disappears.

I have no experience whether or not sandpaper or the cheaper grooved flatteners work on specific stones, but I haven’t met a stone either 140 plate won’t work on. A good diamond plate is a great investment.

[jmcnelly85]

I just noticed the piles of stone sediment. I flatten under running water, I’ve read forum members questioning the health risks of dry stone dust but don’t seem to be able to find the old thread. I’m not well versed on the manner and could be wrong, hopefully someone more knowledgeable can shine more light on the manner.

[Seattle_Ben]

If the shipping is the same as the CKTG plate I'd just toss the cash at the Atoma. I've had both and for flattening I haven't found any real difference but if the prices difference is as negligible as it looks like the durability as well as the versatility of the Atoma would win out for me.

[nakneker]

The Atoma 140 is a great plate, I was gonna suggest the CKTG 140 but that shipping is nuts. I’ve had both and they both work very well, the Atoma is more refined but neither excels in speed and they both do the job of flattening very well. That Atoma should boss that SG 320 around without issue. As far as flattening goes I would recommended getting your stones flat, I wouldn’t leave any kind of dishing on any of them. I’ve gotten in the habit of flattening every stone used after every session, I don’t like having long flattening sessions. Flat stones give better edges, better edges give confidence, it’s worth the time and effort.

[Radar53]

Hi there Sean, I live in NZ and I feel your pain when it comes to freight!!

Before the CKtG own-name plates were available I bought the Atoma 140 plate and an Atoma 400 replacement pad, which I stuck on the other side of the 140 plate. This meant that I got two flattening grits and the freight cost was effectively halved. Weird financial advice I know. So this "combo" plate is what I use for pretty much all my stone flattening. Just to repeat from my earlier posts I use the 140 on stones up to about 1k and the 400 for stones over 1k.

I flatten regularly & so can use pretty light pressures when flattening stones, which I think helps the diamond plates last longer and means that I don't have to use high pressures (read deeper scratches) to flatten stones.

Cross hatch the stone with pencil, use light pressure, vary between backwards & forwards strokes, circular strokes (clockwise & then anti-clockwise) & figure 8's (clockwise & then anti-clockwise). Rotate the stone 180 degrees about half way through. Do this until the pencil marks disappear. Come back if you need more details on technique.

Check out this earlier similar thread: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7183&hilit=flatten

HTH

[Jeff B]

Get a diamond plate, it will pay for itself over time. How much have you spent on sandpaper since you started sharpening?
Those flattening "stones" work but not well and don't stay flat either, I would avoid.

[ken123]

Get a diamond plate, it will pay for itself over time. How much have you spent on sandpaper since you started sharpening?
Those flattening "stones" work but not well and don't stay flat either, I would avoid.

exactly. IF you need something coarser, I have plates down to 46 grit, but a 140 (or 150) will do the trick most of the time unless you are removing lots of metal. I use coarse stones (24 grit) for flattening really coarse stones below 150, but eventually even those need to be flattened. I have good luck with the Atomas but have not tried out the CKTG plates.

---
Ken