1K Stone Recommendation

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yummycrackers
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1K Stone Recommendation

Post by yummycrackers »

Dear all, having received some excellent advice here regarding my first Japanese knife, I thought I would also inquire about the next logical step, that being sharpening. I have always used a King 1K/6K combination stone to sharpen my German knives but have heard that the King 1K doesn't do quite so well with higher HRC blades (>61). Is this true and, if so, what alternative 1K stone would you recommend, in particular for an AS gyuto? From reading other posts, I've seen many people recommend the Cerax 1000, which has the added advantage of not being particularly expensive. Two others that have caught my eye are the Shapton Pro 1000x (currently out of stock, I believe) and the Naniwa Super 1000. Any and all recommendations welcome. Thank you!
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Re: 1K Stone Recommendation

Post by jacko9 »

In my experience the Cerax 1000 needs to be soaked and it dishes rather quickly so it sits on the shelf unused. I switch between the Nubatama 1K and the Shapton Glass 1K stones. Over time I'm starting to favor the Shapton Glass.
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Re: 1K Stone Recommendation

Post by Jeff B »

Shapton Pro(Kuromaku) is a very good stone at an excellent price.
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Re: 1K Stone Recommendation

Post by Wjhunt »

I’ve owned the Shapton pro 1k and the Naniwa pro 1k. I prefer the Naniwa pro by far. I can’t comment on the Cerax but I have a few Suehiro stones and the Debado stones are very nice.
People have different preferences for stones. Do you like hard or soft stones? How important is feedback to you?
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Re: 1K Stone Recommendation

Post by TheLegalRazor »

I've always gotten good results with the Naniwa Professional (Chosera) 1k.
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Re: 1K Stone Recommendation

Post by ken123 »

With 9 different Nubatama 1 k stones as well as Choceras, Shaptons etc, as wel as other synthetic and natural stones, just picking a random 1k out of the crowd is just a bit too random of a choice. Ideally you should narrow down your choices a bit more :) - hard soft, muddy, natural synthetic combo steel choices, and so forth. Mastering the 1k takes into account all of these parameters.

Ken
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Re: 1K Stone Recommendation

Post by Radar53 »

jacko9 talks about the Nubatama 1k, but I'm a little unsure of which one. I recently added a new 1k stone to my collection & that was a Nubatama Platinum, which comes in three flavours those being normal, hard & extra hard (I think, Ken correct me if I'm wrong here).

Mine is the "hard" and at first, I thought that someone had sabotaged my Atoma 140 flattening plate, as it just seemed to skate across the stone with very little effect. I'd hate to see what the "extra hard" would be like.

So, while it may take some work to flatten, it hardly dishes, cuts like crazy, leaves a good consistent scratch pattern, while feedback is maybe a bit muted. I've sort of changed my thinking a little with stones because with the 150# to about 1k stones, I'm generally looking to remove steel to quickly establish a bevel / edge etc & so am prepared to trade that off against a bit of a reduction in feel & zen. From 1k onwards, for me it's about just refining an already established bevel / edge and I'm looking for greater feel & zen from the 1k to my 10k stones.
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Re: 1K Stone Recommendation

Post by yummycrackers »

Thank you all for the suggestions, and thanks for weighing in, Ken. The issue is that, since so far I only have experience with one 1K stone, it would be difficult for me to express any specific preferences, not having anything else to compare to. The King has always seemed fine, if somewhat soft. What I'm mainly looking for is just a budget-friendly stone that would work well with a harder blade (and not wear/dish too quickly).
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Re: 1K Stone Recommendation

Post by Wjhunt »

The Kohetsu 800 may be an option to consider. I wish that I could give you some information on it other than the reviews are very good. Hopefully, someone that has used it will chime in and compare it to the King.
I agree with Jeff, the Shapton works well. I just don’t like the way it feels. Like I said, people have different preferences with stones.
One thing to remember is that stones last a long time. I plan on trying the Kohetsu stones eventually, but I doubt that I will live long enough to ware out the Naniwa pro. I will try it out of curiosity, but it won’t be necessary.
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Re: 1K Stone Recommendation

Post by Jeff B »

I have the Chocera(Naniwa Pro) too along with the Shapton Pro. The Shapton cuts faster but the Naniwa feels better but is also twice the cost. Though the Naniwa feels better I don't have a problem with how the Shapton feels. I think the Shapton is the much better deal but as with everything knife related it all comes down to personal preferences and priorities when it comes to feel, cost, splash-n-go, etc. Non of these stones being mentioned are "bad" stones, they will all perform and last years.
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Re: 1K Stone Recommendation

Post by jmcnelly85 »

For what it’s worth, the king is fully capable of cutting AS steel and others above 61. It’s a slow cutter, but it’ll get the job done. Honestly, I think if you were to add a stone to your lineup, a good coarse stone sounds like a better investment than a second 1k stone.
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Re: 1K Stone Recommendation

Post by orezeno »

Your post wondered if the King 1000 side of your 1K/6K would cut the high-hardness AS. The answer is, yes it will.

The feel will be different from the way your German knives feel on the same stone. In fact, I think you will like the feel on the stone better with AS. The King stones are known for being slow cutting stones, with a nice, soft feel to them. If you are not sharpening many knives per day then the extra passes required to overcome cutting speed won't matter too much. What the King won't handle well are the high-vanadium super steels. AS is not a high-vanadium steel. (While aluminum oxide can abrade knives made with the super steels, it is easier to create great edges on them with diamond or CBN products.)

Now, if you've been using your 1K/6K for a while, enjoy sharpening, and want to try something new, well, you've come to the right place. Suggest stone qualities (feel, cutting speed, wear rate, etc.) that you think you want in a new stone, and you will get many stone recommendations to choose from. As a starter, high-quality, 1K stone I'd suggest you look into the Naniwa Pro 1K. It is rare to find someone who doesn't like these stones.
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Re: 1K Stone Recommendation

Post by gladius »

The Shapton Pro 1000x<< is as good a cutter as it gets. This is the attribute to look for to shape the bevel fast! It is also splash-and-go so no soaking required. Another advantage is it wears slowly, so will last very long with minimal dishing. It includes a case which doubles as a holder while sharpening. It leaves a good finish on most stainless steel blades and transitions well to a 5-8 finisher for polished edges. The customer reviews say it all...https://www.chefknivestogo.com/shpro10.html
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Re: 1K Stone Recommendation

Post by yummycrackers »

Fantastic, thank you for the suggestions. In that case, I may start out by using the King and see how well it works before deciding on whether to add a different 1K stone to the collection. For what it's worth, the combination stone I have is the softer KW-65, not the newer (and apparently harder) KDS, though I don't know how much of a difference there is between the two. If the King works fine then I may very well take jmcnelly85's advice and get a coarser stone instead (or perhaps something in between the 1K and 6K).

A last question regarding the 1Ks: is there a general consensus that the Shapton Pro is better than the Cerax 1000, or is it just a matter of convenience (splash and go vs. soaking)?
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Re: 1K Stone Recommendation

Post by ken123 »

Radar53 wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 10:14 pm jacko9 talks about the Nubatama 1k, but I'm a little unsure of which one. I recently added a new 1k stone to my collection & that was a Nubatama Platinum, which comes in three flavours those being normal, hard & extra hard (I think, Ken correct me if I'm wrong here).

Mine is the "hard" and at first, I thought that someone had sabotaged my Atoma 140 flattening plate, as it just seemed to skate across the stone with very little effect. I'd hate to see what the "extra hard" would be like.

So, while it may take some work to flatten, it hardly dishes, cuts like crazy, leaves a good consistent scratch pattern, while feedback is maybe a bit muted. I've sort of changed my thinking a little with stones because with the 150# to about 1k stones, I'm generally looking to remove steel to quickly establish a bevel / edge etc & so am prepared to trade that off against a bit of a reduction in feel & zen. From 1k onwards, for me it's about just refining an already established bevel / edge and I'm looking for greater feel & zen from the 1k to my 10k stones.
The 1k Nubatama Platinum comes in two hardness levels medium and hard. The 1 k Nubatama Speckled ume comes in 3 hardness levels - medium hard and extra hard. The extra hard is ideal as both a bevel setter and for precise edges on the back sides of chisels.
I like your description of how the xhard feels!

Ken
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Re: 1K Stone Recommendation

Post by polytope »

orezeno wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:58 am What the King won't handle well are the high-vanadium super steels.
This is really useful info; thanks! I have basically given up on my King 1k/6k (my first stone) because it was so slow sharpening VG10 (my first knives). I'll have to pull it out and give it another try now on my non-VG10s.
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Re: 1K Stone Recommendation

Post by d_rap »

VG-10 has some vanadium, but it isn't a "high-vanadium super steel." The basic Kings are more than adequate for VG-10.

However, if it's a fairly dull VG-10 knife, most 1Ks, certainly the Kings, will be slow to apex the edge. That's where a lower grit stone would come in. Not saying there aren't faster 1Ks yet the issue might be more that 1K in general is too fine for some jobs (or maybe there were other variables in your sessions). I of course don't know the details, but the King stone/VG-10 match isn't a bad one.

But for actual super steels, M390 for example, the Kings are certainly not going to be ideal.

There are lots of better options out there and I'm not a huge fan of the Kings, but the Kings will do pretty well with most of what you throw at them.
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Re: 1K Stone Recommendation

Post by Jeff B »

I think one of the biggest problem with those that have uncertainties about the cutting speed of their 1k stone are just using the wrong grit for the job. If you're starting with a fairly dull knife you're better off starting with a lower grit stone, something 320-500 will save you so much time. I almost always start a low grit unless the knife just needs a little tune up, if it's dull start with a lower grit!
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Re: 1K Stone Recommendation

Post by ken123 »

Jeff has a point. Some 1k stones cut fast for their grit due to having a high abrasive density but coarser grit stones are a good alternative - sometimes as coarse as 24 grit or a more comfortable 150 grit. Coarser grits save a lot of time. I'm also a fan of coarse grits too.

---
Ken
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Re: 1K Stone Recommendation

Post by yummycrackers »

Jeff, thanks for the pointer. I usually keep my knives fairly sharp. so the 1K is more than adequate most of the time, but do you have any specific recommendations in terms of coarser stones (preferably on a budget)?


Ken, given the embarrassment of choice that Nubatama offers, is there any one stone in the 1K range that you would recommend as an alternative to the Naniwa/Shapton/Chocera?
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