Master List of Perma Soaking Stones

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Master List of Perma Soaking Stones

Post by ChefKnivesToGo »

I think we should do this. If you guys have experience perma soaking stones please list them and I'll update this post and if we get a good list going I'll sticky it.

List of stones you can permanently soak:

Pink Brick 220
Beston 500
Bester 700
Arashiyama 1K
Bester 1K
Bester 1.2K
King 800
King 1K
King 1.2K
King 6K
Red Brick 1K
Green Brick 2K
Arashiyama 6K
Suehiro Rika 5K
Suehiro Rika 6K
Kohetsu 800
Kohetsu 2K
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Re: Master List of Perma Soaking Stones

Post by Kalaeb »

This is good. Been curious about this myself.

Pink Brick is the only one of mine I can think of that fits into this category.

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Re: Master List of Perma Soaking Stones

Post by Kit Craft »

That is a good idea. I do not, however, perma soak anything so I will be of no help.

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Re: Master List of Perma Soaking Stones

Post by Thuja Magus »

I permasoak the following stones, have been for almost a year. Not sure if I will continue to do so, but only for convenience.

- Imanishi 220 Arato-Kun, this stones dries up fast even when permasoaked. I almost never use it.
- King Deluxe 1200, dries too fast for my liking with a short soak. "muddier" and smoother when permasoaked.
- Suehiro Rika 5000, perform good enough with a 10 minutes soak, but is velvety when permasoaked, seems to wear faster that way.

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Re: Master List of Perma Soaking Stones

Post by STPepper9 »

Good idea Mark.. Wish I could be of more help but all I've permasoaked is king 800 and 1000.

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Re: Master List of Perma Soaking Stones

Post by Igalor »

I permasoak my bester 500

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Re: Master List of Perma Soaking Stones

Post by ken123 »

Officially, ALL Nubatama stones should NOT be permasoaked. Personally I don't permasoak any stones, including but not limited to Nubatamas.

I do have customers who have permasoaked some Nubatamas and are pleased with the results. Again, not recommended.

I also don't recommend soaking Choceras or other Naniwa stones, Shaptons (pro and glass) or Japanese natural stones.

Apparently Bester 500s like permasoaking, but it is a stone I don't care for anyhow and stopped using years ago. Tried it and it helped it a bit.

I'm not a fan of permasoaking in general and also not a fan of permasoanking stones in a shared water bath because of cross-contamination.

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Re: Master List of Perma Soaking Stones

Post by Kit Craft »

ken123 wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:29 pm
Officially, ALL Nubatama stones should NOT be permasoaked. Personally I don't permasoak any stones, including but not limited to Nubatamas.

I do have customers who have permasoaked some Nubatamas and are pleased with the results. Again, not recommended.

I also don't recommend soaking Choceras or other Naniwa stones, Shaptons (pro and glass) or Japanese natural stones.

Apparently Bester 500s like permasoaking, but it is a stone I don't care for anyhow and stopped using years ago. Tried it and it helped it a bit.

I'm not a fan of permasoaking in general and also not a fan of permasoanking stones in a shared water bath because of cross-contamination.

---
Ken
I don't do it because I find it to be more trouble than it is worth and it makes me worry that my stones will fracture and or the water will get some kind of nasties in it.

That said, I don't even like to dip my naturals in water. Call me paranoid but some of them would be hard to replace! Water to the stone, not the other way around. 8-)

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Re: Master List of Perma Soaking Stones

Post by Thuja Magus »

Permasoaking is more hassle than waiting for the stones to saturate. Especially changing water and cleaning the soaking pond frequently. I don't see myself doing for a lot longer.

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Re: Master List of Perma Soaking Stones

Post by ChefKnivesToGo »

I've come around to soaking some of my stones at home. What can I say I'm impatient and they work fine.

I permasoak my Rika and Besters and Beston. The green brick can be permasoaked as can the red brick and pink brick.

Shapton doesn't recommend soaking any of their stones. Nanaiwa choseras and supers stones are also not supposed to be permasoaked.

Most naturals are not supposed to be soaked.

The arashiyamas (both 1K and 6k) can be permasoaked.

I'm not sure about the kitayama. It's been a long time since I used it regularly and when I did I remember it not needing much if any soak. Anyone have this one?
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Re: Master List of Perma Soaking Stones

Post by ken123 »

Kit Craft wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 4:43 pm
ken123 wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:29 pm
Officially, ALL Nubatama stones should NOT be permasoaked. Personally I don't permasoak any stones, including but not limited to Nubatamas.

I do have customers who have permasoaked some Nubatamas and are pleased with the results. Again, not recommended.

I also don't recommend soaking Choceras or other Naniwa stones, Shaptons (pro and glass) or Japanese natural stones.

Apparently Bester 500s like permasoaking, but it is a stone I don't care for anyhow and stopped using years ago. Tried it and it helped it a bit.

I'm not a fan of permasoaking in general and also not a fan of permasoanking stones in a shared water bath because of cross-contamination.

---
Ken
I don't do it because I find it to be more trouble than it is worth and it makes me worry that my stones will fracture and or the water will get some kind of nasties in it.

That said, I don't even like to dip my naturals in water. Call me paranoid but some of them would be hard to replace! Water to the stone, not the other way around. 8-)
Agreed on all these additional points.

On the Nubatamas, I find, depending on the stone that just running them under the tap while I'm usimg the preceding stone is more than enough time to get them up to speed and ready to use. For the finer grit stones even less time is needed. If you watch my video demonstrations of the Nubatamas (a sharpening course in disguise) you can see just how long of a presoak I use on each stone.

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Re: Master List of Perma Soaking Stones

Post by ken123 »

Been a while on the 'kitty' but I remember it not requiring a presoak - similar to the 8k Nubatama or the 8k snow white.

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Re: Master List of Perma Soaking Stones

Post by Kit Craft »

ChefKnivesToGo wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:11 pm
I've come around to soaking some of my stones at home. What can I say I'm impatient and they work fine.

I permasoak my Rika and Besters and Beston. The green brick can be permasoaked as can the red brick and pink brick.

Shapton doesn't recommend soaking any of their stones. Nanaiwa choseras and supers stones are also not supposed to be permasoaked.

Most naturals are not supposed to be soaked.

The arashiyamas (both 1K and 6k) can be permasoaked.

I'm not sure about the kitayama. It's been a long time since I used it regularly and when I did I remember it not needing much if any soak. Anyone have this one?
It is a resinoid stone, for what it is worth. My understanding is that resinoid stones should be entirely splash and go or permasoaked. It seems that the soaking and drying is what cracks them. I've read this numerous times from sources that I trust and have never had issues following those directions.

Vitrified and clay based stones seem to be fine for permasoaking as well. While I do no permasoak, I have never had issues with extended soaking and or drying on such stones. In the case of Vitrified stones I have actually seen a post on a woodworking forum where a fellow froze his stone, thawed it and used it without issue. I believe that was Stu of tools from Japan.

Magnesia, not so much. These stones are kind of prissy, in my experience, and don't care much for water other than a few drops here and there or they are prone to cracking. I hear that they can leach and or dissolve over time as well but I have never heard anyone actually say that they had such a problem. Cracking, absolutely.

Mind you, as I don't permasoak I am just regurgitating what I have heard so take that with a grain of salt.

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Re: Master List of Perma Soaking Stones

Post by Radar53 »

When I was buying my stones some 6 months ago, one of the properties I was looking for was that they could be permasoaked. Of the stones I was considering, forum members advised that the following were capable of permasoaking;

Kohetsu 800
Kohetsu 2k
Cerax 6k
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Re: Master List of Perma Soaking Stones

Post by Kit Craft »

Radar53 wrote:
Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:16 pm
When I was buying my stones some 6 months ago, one of the properties I was looking for was that they could be permasoaked. Of the stones I was considering, forum members advised that the following were capable of permasoaking;

Kohetsu 800
Kohetsu 2k
Cerax 6k
In theory all of the cerax stones should be able to be permasoaked, that is assuming my understanding of them is correct. Cerax stones, according to what I have read on the Suehiro site, are vitrified. All of the vitrified stones that I have seen thus far have been said to be okay to permasoak. Again, that is simply supposition on my part and I read it on a poorly translated site. However, again Stu from tools from Japan did confirm this, for what that is worth to you. He did tell me that all of the traditional stones from Suehiro are fine to soak as well. I do not know about the "New" Cerax nor any of the oddity Suehiro stones. Ken might know, though.

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Re: Master List of Perma Soaking Stones

Post by Kit Craft »

ChefKnivesToGo wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:21 am
I think we should do this. If you guys have experience perma soaking stones please list them and I'll update this post and if we get a good list going I'll sticky it.

List of stones you can permanently soak:

Pink Brick 220
Beston 500
Bester 700
Arashiyama 1K
Bester 1K
Bester 1.2K
King 800
King 1K
King 1.2K
King 6K
Red Brick 1K
Green Brick 2K
Arashiyama 6K
Suehiro Rika 5K
Suehiro Rika 6K
For what it is worth, Ryky Tran the youtuber, permasoaked a king 6k and did a video. It gets very, very muddy afterward and he hated it afterward. Says it is much slower cutting and it does look to be true in the video. However, I bet it leaves a hell of a lot better contrast that way. I would test but I haven't had King stones (other than my 800) for quite sometime now.

On the other hand, other people may like the attributes that the stone has after permasoaking. The Rika 5k changes, a lot, if you give it a good long soak. Much more mud and so much more creamy than if you give it a 5-10 minute soak. I recall Jason B saying this about another stone as well but I don't remember which it was.

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Re: Master List of Perma Soaking Stones

Post by gladius »

Kit Craft wrote:
Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:34 pm
In theory all of the cerax stones should be able to be permasoaked, that is assuming my understanding of them is correct. Cerax stones, according to what I have read on the Suehiro site, are vitrified. All of the vitrified stones that I have seen thus far have been said to be okay to permasoak. Again, that is simply supposition on my part and I read it on a poorly translated site. However, again Stu from tools from Japan did confirm this, for what that is worth to you. He did tell me that all of the traditional stones from Suehiro are fine to soak as well. I do not know about the "New" Cerax nor any of the oddity Suehiro stones. Ken might know, though.
------
This website does NOT recommend them to be soaked.

https://www.fine-tools.com/suehiro-stones.html

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Re: Master List of Perma Soaking Stones

Post by Kit Craft »

gladius wrote:
Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:53 pm
Kit Craft wrote:
Thu Jun 22, 2017 6:34 pm
In theory all of the cerax stones should be able to be permasoaked, that is assuming my understanding of them is correct. Cerax stones, according to what I have read on the Suehiro site, are vitrified. All of the vitrified stones that I have seen thus far have been said to be okay to permasoak. Again, that is simply supposition on my part and I read it on a poorly translated site. However, again Stu from tools from Japan did confirm this, for what that is worth to you. He did tell me that all of the traditional stones from Suehiro are fine to soak as well. I do not know about the "New" Cerax nor any of the oddity Suehiro stones. Ken might know, though.
------
This website does NOT recommend them to be soaked.

https://www.fine-tools.com/suehiro-stones.html
Interesting. I have never used that site but order from Stu all the time and have never had issues following his advice. But again, as I said, I have not tried to permasoak any stones which is why I say it is supposition on my part. Me, I am way too paranoid (and lazy) to permasoak anything. :lol: So I would go with the advice to not permasoak if there is any indication that one shouldn't, to be on the safe side.

Edit: I don't know that I agree with their assessment of 5 minutes soak time. My stones don't act right unless they get 10-12 minutes and I have had them in water for over 30 with no issues thus far in about 2 years of use. Regardless, as I said, if there is any debate maybe err on the side of caution. I am fine with soaking mine for however long it takes me to get to them, though.

Second edit: After some digging it seems that the official word is to not permasoak but that seems common. I see on the old forum there are members who do so, though. I wish Jason B would chime in here. If anyone has tried, I feel that it would be him.

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Re: Master List of Perma Soaking Stones

Post by ChefKnivesToGo »

1. I'm happy to be the guneapig and perma soak a couple of Cerax stones and see how they do.

2. I'll get ahold of Jason and see if he can weigh in. He's used a shit load of stones.
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Re: Master List of Perma Soaking Stones

Post by Jason B. »

I have soaked or am currently soaking,
King 1k
King Ice Bear 4k
Imanishi pink 220
Imanishi 10k
Arashiyama 1k & 6k
Kohetsu 800
Kohetsu 2000
Naniwa 2k Aotoshi
Naniwa omura 150
Suehiro Cerax 6k
Nubatama bamboo 5k
Nubatama bamboo 1k gold
Nubatama bamboo 150 & 180
Nubatama Ume 1k speckled
Nubatama bamboo 1200
Nubatama bamboo 2000
Nubatama bamboo 400
Nubatama Han-Han

All stones listed have seen longer than 30 days and some going on 6+ years, like the Green Brick.

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