I like the Shapton Pro 2K a lot. How about 1K or 5K?

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Re: I like the Shapton Pro 2K a lot. How about 1K or 5K?

Post by Kit Craft »

gladius wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:20 pm
Kit Craft wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:04 pm Interesting, thank you. I have not even thought to try such a jump because my 1k between is simply so fast it is under a handful of strokes on each side and splash
I will have to give it a go tomorrow minus the Meara. I have other things I can sub in there though. :mrgreen:
IF you have a Meara, give that a try first. The 8k to Meara is a lateral if not a step down in grit. It takes the keen 8k edge and converts it to natural scratch pattern and crisps up the apex. Exceptional indeed. This combo also works with many steel types including PM steels.
I don't have one, I missed that boat. Ken was out of them before I even got into naturals.
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Re: I like the Shapton Pro 2K a lot. How about 1K or 5K?

Post by gladius »

I don't have one, I missed that boat. Ken was out of them before I even got into naturals.
Try a hard stone then, 6k - 8k, maybe a Yaginoshima.
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Re: I like the Shapton Pro 2K a lot. How about 1K or 5K?

Post by ken123 »

OMG. This thread has me fantasizing the bunch of us all going into an ice cream parlor snd trying to decide what flavor is 'the best ' flavor.

The focus of the thread is 1k 2k and 5k stones more or less.

So I guess what is in this thread is the perception of feedback. An important variable in deciding stone choice.

What seems absent is specificity for a given task. Feedback is more of a preference whereas using an inappropriate stone choice invites fatigue and suffering.

So let's do feedback first. I'll start with the 5k Shapton pro. Minimal feedback, almost exceptionally so. I compare it to riding on ice with bald tires. What can you learn from this stone ? It will teach you precision. It will teach you precise angle control without relying on feedback and the advantages of splash and go. It will teach you nothing of mud management, control of edge leading vs trailing stones, or kasumi finishes. So if you want more feedback, there is the Chocera 5k. This, like other choceras are magnesia based stones so they give a creamy feel. Even within the series, it is the softest one. The 3k is the hardest. The 5k Rika is closer to the chocera than the Shspton. The 5k Nubatama has excellent feedback, is a bit harder than the chocera but not quite as hard as the Shap pro. It also works well eith kasumi finishes.

To be continued ..

---
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Re: I like the Shapton Pro 2K a lot. How about 1K or 5K?

Post by beanbag »

Hi and thanks for the replies so far.
So as not to get too far off track, let's limit to splash and go stones $60 and under.
If I want to deal with a soaking stone and mud management and etc, I have the 6K side of my Imanishi combo stone.
Lemme say a bit more about my situation:

One of the knives I was working on was a cheap Wusthof paring knife with stamped blade and plastic molded handle. It was dull and had very small nicks from being tossed in the sink. I started with the Shapton pro 2K, but even after several dozen strokes, I didn't really seem to be making much progress in reducing the nicks, nor even raising much of a burr. So I used the 1K side of my Imanishi, which sorta feels like scraping the knife on wet concrete, but whatever, it seems to work ok to make a burr and reduce the size of the nicks.

So I'm sorta looking for a 1K-ish stone for this reason, but in splash and go because I don't want to wait (both for soaking and drying).

Second story: my Masutani knife from CKTG has gotten either a little dull, or micro-polished, in that it still cuts paper fine, but slides across a tomato without biting in. In this case, I just used a few trailing strokes on the SP2k stone, and that seems to have fixed it.

So my question now is what is even the point of having a higher grit stone? I don't intend to use the higher grit stone to remove all the scratches of the previous stone by sharpening at the same angle. I don't care if the small bevel is shiny or not. Don't care much about leather stropping and shaving arm hairs. I just want it to cut thru food with low friction, cut thru thick-skin tomatoes with low pressure, and cut raw boneless beef and chicken without having the meat "roll" under the knife.

Minor digression for short story: One of the people at my work is a semi-pro knife sharpener with a contraption of slowing spinning wheels soaked in water. What he tends to do is start on the coarse stone and lean hard into it to purposely make scratches / micro-serrations. Then go to the finer wheels but at a slightly higher angle, but not trying to over polish. He says his grinds are not the prettiest, but he works with a lot of pros (e.g. butcher, chef, etc) and they seem to like his work, so he must be doing something right.

Is the high grit stone used as part of the knife's touch-up sharpening? I sorta figured I could use the SP2K stone as a "honing rod" for the quick touch-up, as I did to the Masutani knife. If I'm supposed to use the high grit stone every time I resharpen, then I want a splash and go one, but if I only need to use it occasionally, I'll just use the 6K Imanishi I already have and save some money.

PS: I'm not looking for a stone that literally feels the same as the SP2K despite having a different grit.
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Re: I like the Shapton Pro 2K a lot. How about 1K or 5K?

Post by Kit Craft »

beanbag wrote: Mon Dec 04, 2017 4:18 am Hi and thanks for the replies so far.
So as not to get too far off track, let's limit to splash and go stones $60 and under.
If I want to deal with a soaking stone and mud management and etc, I have the 6K side of my Imanishi combo stone.
Lemme say a bit more about my situation:

One of the knives I was working on was a cheap Wusthof paring knife with stamped blade and plastic molded handle. It was dull and had very small nicks from being tossed in the sink. I started with the Shapton pro 2K, but even after several dozen strokes, I didn't really seem to be making much progress in reducing the nicks, nor even raising much of a burr. So I used the 1K side of my Imanishi, which sorta feels like scraping the knife on wet concrete, but whatever, it seems to work ok to make a burr and reduce the size of the nicks.

So I'm sorta looking for a 1K-ish stone for this reason, but in splash and go because I don't want to wait (both for soaking and drying).

Second story: my Masutani knife from CKTG has gotten either a little dull, or micro-polished, in that it still cuts paper fine, but slides across a tomato without biting in. In this case, I just used a few trailing strokes on the SP2k stone, and that seems to have fixed it.

So my question now is what is even the point of having a higher grit stone? I don't intend to use the higher grit stone to remove all the scratches of the previous stone by sharpening at the same angle. I don't care if the small bevel is shiny or not. Don't care much about leather stropping and shaving arm hairs. I just want it to cut thru food with low friction, cut thru thick-skin tomatoes with low pressure, and cut raw boneless beef and chicken without having the meat "roll" under the knife.

Minor digression for short story: One of the people at my work is a semi-pro knife sharpener with a contraption of slowing spinning wheels soaked in water. What he tends to do is start on the coarse stone and lean hard into it to purposely make scratches / micro-serrations. Then go to the finer wheels but at a slightly higher angle, but not trying to over polish. He says his grinds are not the prettiest, but he works with a lot of pros (e.g. butcher, chef, etc) and they seem to like his work, so he must be doing something right.

Is the high grit stone used as part of the knife's touch-up sharpening? I sorta figured I could use the SP2K stone as a "honing rod" for the quick touch-up, as I did to the Masutani knife. If I'm supposed to use the high grit stone every time I resharpen, then I want a splash and go one, but if I only need to use it occasionally, I'll just use the 6K Imanishi I already have and save some money.

PS: I'm not looking for a stone that literally feels the same as the SP2K despite having a different grit.
You might consider a coarser stone such as a Chosera 400 or shapton glass 500. These will both make the jump to 2k well and handle the job you are talking about. As for a higher grit, no I would not say you really need one but it is nice to have. You ask the point and that is to manipulate the edge with different finishes for different purposes.
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Re: I like the Shapton Pro 2K a lot. How about 1K or 5K?

Post by beanbag »

gladius wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:27 pm My choice for fine stone in the SP line is the SP 8k. One can easily jump from the 2k to the 8k and produce very nice edges with polish and bite.
How does one get both polish AND bite?

In the context of a chef's knife for cutting raw meat and veggies, what does the 8K get me over the 2K?
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Re: I like the Shapton Pro 2K a lot. How about 1K or 5K?

Post by Kalaeb »

beanbag wrote: Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:37 am
gladius wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2017 5:27 pm My choice for fine stone in the SP line is the SP 8k. One can easily jump from the 2k to the 8k and produce very nice edges with polish and bite.
How does one get both polish AND bite?

In the context of a chef's knife for cutting raw meat and veggies, what does the 8K get me over the 2K?
Because you don't go through a full process of scratch removal from the 2k, you are only doing a few strokes on the 8k to give it a little shine, but the deeper 2k pattern still remains.
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Re: I like the Shapton Pro 2K a lot. How about 1K or 5K?

Post by ChefKnivesToGo »

The 5K is a nice, hard stone. It's splash and go and it's in our rotation at the office. It loads up fairly quickly which is somewhat typical of hard finishers and I lap it right before I use it for 10 seconds.

There are a bunch of good choices for a 1k-2k stone so I usually use the shapton glass 2k instead.

Alton gouged our new kitayama 3 times so no more of that for him. Back to the hard stuff for him. We're going to use the shapton pro 8k in it's place.
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Re: I like the Shapton Pro 2K a lot. How about 1K or 5K?

Post by Kit Craft »

ChefKnivesToGo wrote: Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:27 pm The 5K is a nice, hard stone. It's splash and go and it's in our rotation at the office. It loads up fairly quickly which is somewhat typical of hard finishers and I lap it right before I use it for 10 seconds.

There are a bunch of good choices for a 1k-2k stone so I usually use the shapton glass 2k instead.

Alton gouged our new kitayama 3 times so no more of that for him. Back to the hard stuff for him. We're going to use the shapton pro 8k in it's place.
Smack his fingers for being mean to that poor Kitayama!
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Re: I like the Shapton Pro 2K a lot. How about 1K or 5K?

Post by ChefKnivesToGo »

That’s ok. Someone’s going to get a good deal on it tomorrow.
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Re: I like the Shapton Pro 2K a lot. How about 1K or 5K?

Post by Kit Craft »

ChefKnivesToGo wrote: Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:53 pm That’s ok. Someone’s going to get a good deal on it tomorrow.
Not me, I already have two! :lol: I am sure someone will love getting a great deal on one though!
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Re: I like the Shapton Pro 2K a lot. How about 1K or 5K?

Post by beanbag »

ChefKnivesToGo wrote: Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:27 pm The 5K is a nice, hard stone. It's splash and go and it's in our rotation at the office. It loads up fairly quickly which is somewhat typical of hard finishers and I lap it right before I use it for 10 seconds.
Which 5K?
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Re: I like the Shapton Pro 2K a lot. How about 1K or 5K?

Post by ChefKnivesToGo »

beanbag wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2017 2:54 am
ChefKnivesToGo wrote: Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:27 pm The 5K is a nice, hard stone. It's splash and go and it's in our rotation at the office. It loads up fairly quickly which is somewhat typical of hard finishers and I lap it right before I use it for 10 seconds.
Which 5K?
Sorry, the shapton pro 5k.
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