stone confusion

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appleward91
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stone confusion

Post by appleward91 »

So like many of you, i got into knives, and that lead down the sharpening hole hah. Right now all i have is a king 1k. And there was no reason why 1k over anything else, just happens thats what I got. My question is, are there any sort of guidelines or some stones that generally everyone can agree on to get a great edge again? Meaning, lets say I pick up an 800grit right? And on the other end I get a 6k. is all i need is 800 and 6k? Why not? would a 2k or 3k in between them be ideal? would it matter if I had 800/2k/6k vs 800/3k/6k? Basically building a stone set but I don't know how much different each step up or down is and what is needed/not needed. Money is no issue here, but I've heard that having some tooth left on is ideal, which is why i think i should stop at 6k and not even go to 8k. Am i on the right track as far as that?

Thanks, as always, I get information from everyone here, much appreciated.
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Kit Craft
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Re: stone confusion

Post by Kit Craft »

appleward91 wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:46 pm So like many of you, i got into knives, and that lead down the sharpening hole hah. Right now all i have is a king 1k. And there was no reason why 1k over anything else, just happens thats what I got. My question is, are there any sort of guidelines or some stones that generally everyone can agree on to get a great edge again? Meaning, lets say I pick up an 800grit right? And on the other end I get a 6k. is all i need is 800 and 6k? Why not? would a 2k or 3k in between them be ideal? would it matter if I had 800/2k/6k vs 800/3k/6k? Basically building a stone set but I don't know how much different each step up or down is and what is needed/not needed. Money is no issue here, but I've heard that having some tooth left on is ideal, which is why i think i should stop at 6k and not even go to 8k. Am i on the right track as far as that?

Thanks, as always, I get information from everyone here, much appreciated.
You can absolutely go directly from an 800 to a 6000. If you spend a normal amount of time on each you will end up with a refined 800 grit edge or something that feels similar to a 2-3k edge. If you spend extra time on the 6000 you can refine it even further. With some stones in particular the 6000 grit simply might not be fast enough to bring an 800 grit edge all the way up to 6000 grit. With other brands it may be.

Adding a 2-3k stone between will make the refinement process easier and faster, imo. Is it needed, I think not. I don't even like that sort of edge, overly refined but many others do.

Now, is there a need to get a king 800 when you have the 1k, no, not at all imo. It is not enough faster to justify and it is, again imo, not a great stone for narrow bevels. The 800 is great for single bevels and wide bevels though! I prefer the 1200 as an all round stone but that is neither here nor there. There is nothing wrong with you 1k, use it until it is gone, that won't take as long as you think because it is a soft stone.

I often go 500-2k-6k or 220-1k-8k. What you do is up to you. It will all give you a sharp edge. What kind of edge you want is something you have to find out for yourself.
appleward91
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Re: stone confusion

Post by appleward91 »

Kit Craft wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:30 pm
appleward91 wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:46 pm So like many of you, i got into knives, and that lead down the sharpening hole hah. Right now all i have is a king 1k. And there was no reason why 1k over anything else, just happens thats what I got. My question is, are there any sort of guidelines or some stones that generally everyone can agree on to get a great edge again? Meaning, lets say I pick up an 800grit right? And on the other end I get a 6k. is all i need is 800 and 6k? Why not? would a 2k or 3k in between them be ideal? would it matter if I had 800/2k/6k vs 800/3k/6k? Basically building a stone set but I don't know how much different each step up or down is and what is needed/not needed. Money is no issue here, but I've heard that having some tooth left on is ideal, which is why i think i should stop at 6k and not even go to 8k. Am i on the right track as far as that?

Thanks, as always, I get information from everyone here, much appreciated.
You can absolutely go directly from an 800 to a 6000. If you spend a normal amount of time on each you will end up with a refined 800 grit edge or something that feels similar to a 2-3k edge. If you spend extra time on the 6000 you can refine it even further. With some stones in particular the 6000 grit simply might not be fast enough to bring an 800 grit edge all the way up to 6000 grit. With other brands it may be.

Adding a 2-3k stone between will make the refinement process easier and faster, imo. Is it needed, I think not. I don't even like that sort of edge, overly refined but many others do.

Now, is there a need to get a king 800 when you have the 1k, no, not at all imo. It is not enough faster to justify and it is, again imo, not a great stone for narrow bevels. The 800 is great for single bevels and wide bevels though! I prefer the 1200 as an all round stone but that is neither here nor there. There is nothing wrong with you 1k, use it until it is gone, that won't take as long as you think because it is a soft stone.

I often go 500-2k-6k or 220-1k-8k. What you do is up to you. It will all give you a sharp edge. What kind of edge you want is something you have to find out for yourself.
So in your opinion I should keep the 1k king and what would be good to pair that with then? I only ask as if I need another stone because I have only been using that 1k, and after seeing all these post about sharpening I'm left wondering if theres potential in my knives that I have been leaving out... :roll:
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Re: stone confusion

Post by Radar53 »

I would suggest the Kohetsu 800 (brick) & 2k to start with. Light pressure on the 800 will give you a +1k finish and the 2k with light pressure a 3k finish. Really capable stones that are fast, medium hardness, good feedback. If you wanted further refinement a Rika 5k seems like a common recommendation or a Cerax 6k. Those three stones would cover a lot of bases.
Cheers Grant

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Kit Craft
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Re: stone confusion

Post by Kit Craft »

appleward91 wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:56 pm
Kit Craft wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:30 pm
appleward91 wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:46 pm So like many of you, i got into knives, and that lead down the sharpening hole hah. Right now all i have is a king 1k. And there was no reason why 1k over anything else, just happens thats what I got. My question is, are there any sort of guidelines or some stones that generally everyone can agree on to get a great edge again? Meaning, lets say I pick up an 800grit right? And on the other end I get a 6k. is all i need is 800 and 6k? Why not? would a 2k or 3k in between them be ideal? would it matter if I had 800/2k/6k vs 800/3k/6k? Basically building a stone set but I don't know how much different each step up or down is and what is needed/not needed. Money is no issue here, but I've heard that having some tooth left on is ideal, which is why i think i should stop at 6k and not even go to 8k. Am i on the right track as far as that?

Thanks, as always, I get information from everyone here, much appreciated.
You can absolutely go directly from an 800 to a 6000. If you spend a normal amount of time on each you will end up with a refined 800 grit edge or something that feels similar to a 2-3k edge. If you spend extra time on the 6000 you can refine it even further. With some stones in particular the 6000 grit simply might not be fast enough to bring an 800 grit edge all the way up to 6000 grit. With other brands it may be.

Adding a 2-3k stone between will make the refinement process easier and faster, imo. Is it needed, I think not. I don't even like that sort of edge, overly refined but many others do.

Now, is there a need to get a king 800 when you have the 1k, no, not at all imo. It is not enough faster to justify and it is, again imo, not a great stone for narrow bevels. The 800 is great for single bevels and wide bevels though! I prefer the 1200 as an all round stone but that is neither here nor there. There is nothing wrong with you 1k, use it until it is gone, that won't take as long as you think because it is a soft stone.

I often go 500-2k-6k or 220-1k-8k. What you do is up to you. It will all give you a sharp edge. What kind of edge you want is something you have to find out for yourself.
So in your opinion I should keep the 1k king and what would be good to pair that with then? I only ask as if I need another stone because I have only been using that 1k, and after seeing all these post about sharpening I'm left wondering if theres potential in my knives that I have been leaving out... :roll:
That is not to say that you can not replace the King, if you really want to but you do not need to. People have been getting by with a King 1k/6k for longer than I have been alive. Anyway, if you use basic stainless and simple carbon there is nothing wrong with a simple King 6k. A Arashiyama 6k is another good option. If you want something with remarkable feedback, and don't mind giving it a soak with the 1k then have a look at the rika 5. I really like the rika because it acts more like a 3-4k stone and leaves the perfect amount of bite in an edge. If you want even more bite and splash and go look at the shapton pro 2k.

If you decide to get something coarser, in the future you can look at the Shapton glass 500, chosera 400 or Suehiro cerax 320. There is also the pink brick but it is a monster metal remover and not needed for normal maintenance. Others have suggested the king 300 but I have no experience with it.

Grant makes a good suggestion as well but I have no experience with said stones so I can not say one way or the other but they seem well liked.
cwillett
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Re: stone confusion

Post by cwillett »

I think you'll find a lot of different opinions here. As a new sharpener, I found it a bit confusing at first, but now chalk it up to differences in goals and technique. Others more qualified than I can weigh in with their methods, but one thing that I have found very helpful is a simple leather strop. I now strop, briefly, in between stones. I then test the knife by cutting paper. The strop seems to even out my beginners technique a bit and let me see what I've done on the stone. The CKTG strop kit is something like $55 and worth it. As I work through my progression the cutting action gets smoother and smoother. I've just started with a different set of techniques gleaned from posts here and I'm liking the results. If money isn't an object, play around a bit. Add a 2k or 3k and a 5k or 6k. Add a lower grit 400 or 600. Fiddle with strops. Etc.
appleward91
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Re: stone confusion

Post by appleward91 »

Thanks guys, love the feedback here on the forums. I may start out and go with the suggested kohetsu 800/2k/and probably the rika5k. I have seen a lot of rage over the kohetsu right now anyhow.
appleward91
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Re: stone confusion

Post by appleward91 »

kohetsu 800 out of stock. any recommendations for substitute for kohetsu 800?
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Re: stone confusion

Post by Jason H »

appleward91 wrote: Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:46 pm So like many of you, i got into knives, and that lead down the sharpening hole hah. Right now all i have is a king 1k. And there was no reason why 1k over anything else, just happens thats what I got. My question is, are there any sort of guidelines or some stones that generally everyone can agree on to get a great edge again? Meaning, lets say I pick up an 800grit right? And on the other end I get a 6k. is all i need is 800 and 6k? Why not? would a 2k or 3k in between them be ideal? would it matter if I had 800/2k/6k vs 800/3k/6k? Basically building a stone set but I don't know how much different each step up or down is and what is needed/not needed. Money is no issue here, but I've heard that having some tooth left on is ideal, which is why i think i should stop at 6k and not even go to 8k. Am i on the right track as far as that?

Thanks, as always, I get information from everyone here, much appreciated.
Welcome aboard the CKTG rabbit hole! I’ll leave your questions up to the pros here but to make it all easier and more enjoyable, get a 140 flattening plate. It’s worth the money no doubt.
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Re: stone confusion

Post by Ourorboros »

Maybe it's easier to look at your progression instead of specific stones. You can replace the stones in your progression to suit your tastes or have multiples on the same general category to deal with more difficult steels.
For thinning, coarser stones can expedite the process. In addition, everybody should eventually have a flattening plate.
Generally people will have a coarse stone (320-500), a medium stone (800-2K) and a polishing stone (3k and up).
A coarse stone is good for dealing with minor repairs or a dull knife. You are removing material faster with this. You shouldn't need it often if you are maintaining your edge.
The medium stone should be getting the bulk of your work. You use this when touch ups aren't enough. If you get a Kohetsu 2K, you really don't need the 800. I can jump from a coarse stone to the 2K without issue. Want and need are two different things.
For the polishing stone, this depends a lot on taste and what you are cutting. People who deal with a lot of meat generally don't use the finest stones. This varies & some simply don't polish out all the teeth. So a 6K edge may not be for you. YMMV.

A stone in each category fills most needs. Some of use have multiples in each category, because some are better for certain steels, some deal with PM steels better, etc. So what you need & where to stop is a matter of taste. The edge you get depends not only on the stones you use, but how you use them.
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