Newbie Advice

[Naples09]

Hello all -

New member and new to quality knives. This might be a long post so please be patient with me. I have zero knowledge about J knives or sharpening but read the forum for hours before my first purchase on black friday - which allowed me to take advantage of the sale!

Our old knives are JA Henkels - Forged Synergy Stainless Steel - which was a block set we purchased around 2007. They have never been sharpened over the 10 years and are very very dull.

On BF I ordered the following:

MAC Superior 4" paring
https://www.chefknivestogo.com/macsu4insapa.html

Kohetsu SLD Santoku 170mm
https://www.chefknivestogo.com/kohetsu1.html

So far my wife and I love the new knives as they are razor sharp after having them finished before shipping by CKTG. They were finished at 15 degrees by Alton with SG 500, SG 2K, Original Snow White 8K and Horse Strop with 0.5 Micron Paste per the card sent with the knives

So that's my history - now on to my future and questions:

What stones should I buy in order to maintain the edge on the 2 CKTG knives going forward? Also, I would like to try to sharpen the old Henkels - as practice before touching the Kohetsu - therefore, what additional stones would I need to get a decent edge on the Henkels?

As I'm completely new to this - I would be open to all and any suggestions. However, I would prefer splash and go stones, as they seem easier to use for a beginner. As I've been watching a lot of the sharpening videos linked on this forum.

Thank you for taking the time to read my post and look forward to any comments. Please ask any additional questions that might be useful.

Regards,

Jim

[Kit Craft]

So many ways to go here. You do not need an all in set like Alton used but there is no reason you can't get one either.

This strop kit will keep sharp knives sharp: https://www.chefknivestogo.com/3x8stropset4pc.html

This Shapton Pro 2k will resharpen your dull blade and can even do light thinning behind the edge: https://www.chefknivestogo.com/shpro20.html

This CKTG 140 grit diamond plate will flatten your 2k and do any major repairs you might run into: https://www.chefknivestogo.com/140grdistflp.html

Yes, there are some gaps there but these are the basics and a set you can build around over the future. These are long term investments. The 2k stone will put a nice finish on your Euro stainless too. However, a $30 Tojiro Hairline would be a great investment for sharpening practice!

You can go more simple with a combo stone if you prefer or more complex with an complete set or anything between but these are my mainstay items as a hobbyist.

[cwillett]

There are a lot of different paths, but the good news is that, more or less, everything works pretty well and choices will eventually come down to personal preference. Here are some broad guidelines from a relatively new sharpener (under a year).

1. Focus on low grit stones first. I'd get a stone in the 320-500 grit range one in the 1000-2000 grit range. Some people prefer small jumps. Others large jumps. You'll want these two stones for working over your old knives.

2. Pick up the CKTG strop kit that Kit links to above. I find that if I strop on bare leather between stones I get a better sense of the edge. You can use the leather and the loaded balsa strop to maintain your new knives for a while, giving you time to learn to sharpen.

3. Get a finishing stone in the 5-6k range. You'll spend the least amount of time on this stone. For a full size knife I spend about 10 minutes on my 1k, about 2 minutes on my 5k, and about a minute on my 8k. There are lots of good options in this range and it is tempting to focus on high grit stones (bad idea).

4. Get a flattening plate. Kit links to one above. I haven't used it, but I'm sure it works just fine. The Atoma 140 plate is a more expensive option: https://www.chefknivestogo.com/at14dipl.html

5. Practice on your old knives. A lot. The worst that you can do to them is scratch them. I spent 4 months learning how to sharpen using my old knives before touching my new Japanese knife.

When looking for your first set of stones, try to get stones that people feel have great feedback and are softer. This will be more forgiving (an overgeneralization) that hard stones without feedback. For specific stones, here is what I would do:

Suehiro Cerax 320
https://www.chefknivestogo.com/bunmei3pcset.html

Suehiro Cerax 1000
https://www.chefknivestogo.com/tcblla24gy.html

Suehiro RIka 5000
https://www.chefknivestogo.com/suri50grst.html

Along with the strop kit and the flattening plate you'll be good to go. If you want to ease in to it, just get the 1k and the strop kit. The rest you can add later.

[Kit Craft]

There are a lot of different paths, but the good news is that, more or less, everything works pretty well and choices will eventually come down to personal preference. Here are some broad guidelines from a relatively new sharpener (under a year).

1. Focus on low grit stones first. I'd get a stone in the 320-500 grit range one in the 1000-2000 grit range. Some people prefer small jumps. Others large jumps. You'll want these two stones for working over your old knives.

2. Pick up the CKTG strop kit that Kit links to above. I find that if I strop on bare leather between stones I get a better sense of the edge. You can use the leather and the loaded balsa strop to maintain your new knives for a while, giving you time to learn to sharpen.

3. Get a finishing stone in the 5-6k range. You'll spend the least amount of time on this stone. For a full size knife I spend about 10 minutes on my 1k, about 2 minutes on my 5k, and about a minute on my 8k. There are lots of good options in this range and it is tempting to focus on high grit stones (bad idea).

4. Get a flattening plate. Kit links to one above. I haven't used it, but I'm sure it works just fine. The Atoma 140 plate is a more expensive option: https://www.chefknivestogo.com/at14dipl.html

5. Practice on your old knives. A lot. The worst that you can do to them is scratch them. I spent 4 months learning how to sharpen using my old knives before touching my new Japanese knife.

When looking for your first set of stones, try to get stones that people feel have great feedback and are softer. This will be more forgiving (an overgeneralization) that hard stones without feedback. For specific stones, here is what I would do:

Suehiro Cerax 320
https://www.chefknivestogo.com/bunmei3pcset.html

Suehiro Cerax 1000
https://www.chefknivestogo.com/tcblla24gy.html

Suehiro RIka 5000
https://www.chefknivestogo.com/suri50grst.html

Along with the strop kit and the flattening plate you'll be good to go. If you want to ease in to it, just get the 1k and the strop kit. The rest you can add later.

Those are all great suggestions but none fit the splash and go request. Otherwise I would suggest the typical Richmond 8pc set.

[cwillett]

Those are all great suggestions but none fit the splash and go request. Otherwise I would suggest the typical Richmond 8pc set.

I'm not sure a splash and go set is necessarily going to be easier to learn on than a soaker set that has really good feedback and is forgiving of beginner technique.

[ChefKnivesToGo]

Hi Jim,

I’m glad you liked the way your knives arrived.

Here is my suggestion for a set that will keep them sharp.

Get this basic set: https://www.chefknivestogo.com/sh6pcstset.html

Add this flattening plate and can double as a low grit stone: https://www.chefknivestogo.com/140grdistflp.html

Get our strop set for quick touch ups and to finish your edges when sharpening: https://www.chefknivestogo.com/haamstkit.html

That’s really all you need to get good results. If you have questions after you try sharpening a couple times we’ll be more than happy to help you.

[Kit Craft]

Those are all great suggestions but none fit the splash and go request. Otherwise I would suggest the typical Richmond 8pc set.

I'm not sure a splash and go set is necessarily going to be easier to learn on than a soaker set that has really good feedback and is forgiving of beginner technique.

I don't disagree. However I think beginner friendly is a silly concept to begin with. Even shapton glass are not so hard that they are too much of a hindrance, imo. Maybe I am tainted, though, after trying so many hard natural finishers. Some of the Lvl 5's are freakishly hard.

On the other hand some splash and go have good feedback too. Shapton pro 1k, 2k and Arashiyama 6k for example.

[Jason H]

Welcome Naples09!

I’m also new to freehand so here is my two cents: watch every tutorial by CKTG, Peter Nowlan, Jon Broida, and Murray Carter; don’t get sucked into the thousands of YouTube videos out there.

I’ve also found that sharpening is like chess. You can learn the basics in a few hours but spend a lifetime perfecting it.

Go to yard sales and swap meets to pick up knives to practice on but still look for decent steel. Sharpening on real junk, I didnt find helpful. You can get an old beat up Forschner, Wusthof, or Dexter and make it much better than new.

Enjoy!

[Kit Craft]

Welcome Naples09!

I’m also new to freehand so here is my two cents: watch every tutorial by CKTG, Peter Nowlan, Jon Broida, and Murray Carter; don’t get sucked into the thousands of YouTube videos out there.

I’ve also found that sharpening is like chess. You can learn the basics in a few hours but spend a lifetime perfecting it.

Go to yard sales and swap meets to pick up knives to practice on but still look for decent steel. Sharpening on real junk, I didnt find helpful. You can get an old beat up Forschner, Wusthof, or Dexter and make it much better than new.

Enjoy!

This is solid advice. However, I find it hard to not get sucked into youtube videos. I watch lots of them even if only for a laugh.

[Jason H]

This is solid advice. However, I find it hard to not get sucked into youtube videos. I watch lots of them even if only for a laugh.

That’s because you are an expert and can differentiate the good from the bad. Lol... there is some really bad advice floating around out there. I can remember watching a “pro” with many followers spray WD-40 on Chosera’s.

[Kit Craft]

This is solid advice. However, I find it hard to not get sucked into youtube videos. I watch lots of them even if only for a laugh.

That’s because you are an expert and can differentiate the good from the bad. Lol... there is some really bad advice floating around out there. I can remember watching a “pro” with many followers spray WD-40 on Chosera’s.

I am a simple hobbyist. By no means would I say that I am an expert. But yes, there is some odd and down right poor advice out there. Some of it is hilarious too.

[Naples09]

Morning!

This forum is awesome! Thank you to everyone for your input and suggestions. I will continue to read and do research on the recommendations above. Then I will be back with more questions, I'm sure.

As far as the stones go - soaking vs. splash & go regarding the feedback. It seems many of you prefer one over the other. I'm not seeing a sense of agreement amongst the forum. Is this assumption correct? I was thinking of buying splash & go due to the ease of use and to future proof myself. As I'm very much trying not to fall down the rabbit hole!

As far as the strop set goes and maintaining the new J Knives - would I use the leather strop to keep those knives sharp after each use (or every few weeks?) or do I need to use the wood plank with the diamond paste to keep them sharp?

Thank you again and I look forward to continuing this discussion as I do more research.

Jim

[Kit Craft]

Morning!

This forum is awesome! Thank you to everyone for your input and suggestions. I will continue to read and do research on the recommendations above. Then I will be back with more questions, I'm sure.

As far as the stones go - soaking vs. splash & go regarding the feedback. It seems many of you prefer one over the other. I'm not seeing a sense of agreement amongst the forum. Is this assumption correct? I was thinking of buying splash & go due to the ease of use and to future proof myself. As I'm very much trying not to fall down the rabbit hole!

As far as the strop set goes and maintaining the new J Knives - would I use the leather strop to keep those knives sharp after each use (or every few weeks?) or do I need to use the wood plank with the diamond paste to keep them sharp?

Thank you again and I look forward to continuing this discussion as I do more research.

Jim

Feedback is a subjective matter, mostly. Yes, most splash and go stones feel differently in use when compared to soakers. That is not to say that one is better than the other and even within a single stone line the type of feedback is not consistent. For utility purposes this is moot as even the stones with some of the more mute feedback, shapton glass, have more than enough to suffice and teach a new learner. Beyond that you also have feel, which I still lump in with tactile feedback but it is slightly different. Some stones feel smooth and glass like, this makes them lose tactile sensation imo. Other stones feel hard and chalky. Others muddy and creamy. others elastic and rubbery. This is all bunk from a utility standpoint, again. Then you have coarser stones with feel gritty and or sandy.

What is important from that utility aspect is that the stone tells you where the edge is and I find that harder stones do this well. They do not wash out bevels and are much more precise in use. However, this also requires the user to be precise as well. People refer to softer stones as being more forgiving in that you can go slightly over or under your angle and still get a somewhat okay edge, this is true, but you still don't get the edge that you should unless you hold that angle correctly. Also, soft stones have their downfall too. If you go too far over you will gouge the stone. This can be more or less an issue depending on your technique as well.

Me, I prefer the feel of soft muddy stones and I like them for cosmetic finishes on clad blades, most of the time. However, I think that a semi-hard splash and go stone is very practical for a utility sharpener who does not want to fall down the rabbit hole. Easy enough to use, require only a splash of water and can be wiped off and put away after use. Some soakers, my pink brick and my suehiro rika 5k require sitting out a very long time to dry up completely.

At the end of the day, regardless of what I or any other tells you, you need to decide what is better suited to your lifestyle and how you will sharpen. Do you need to be able to put the stones away directly after using them or can they sit on a rack for 24 hours, 72 hours or even a week? Will you travel with them. How will you store them? Etc.

That leather strop, btw, will help clean up your edge and keep it in tip top shape after every use. About every week or two or even soon depending on a lot of factors you will drop back down to the balsa with compound and give your knives a few strops. You will follow that up with the leather and then rely on the leather once again for a week or two. When that no longer works you drop back to your medium stone and repeat the process from there.

[cwillett]

As far as the stones go - soaking vs. splash & go regarding the feedback. It seems many of you prefer one over the other. I'm not seeing a sense of agreement amongst the forum. Is this assumption correct?

As far as the strop set goes and maintaining the new J Knives - would I use the leather strop to keep those knives sharp after each use (or every few weeks?) or do I need to use the wood plank with the diamond paste to keep them sharp?

Jim

Your assumption is correct. My soakers don't ever really dry out. I sharpen in the evening after the kids have gone to bed, I leave them out over night on a cloth towel and in the morning I wrap them up in a trifold cloth diaper. The diaper absorbs the water vapor that they will release. The bundle of stones gets put in a cheap tool box along with the other sharpening tools. So, for me, it isn't a big deal. I only see splash and go as being an advantage in the higher grits when you just want to touch up a knife, not do a full sharpening. However, I also have the luxury of dropping the stones in a sink with some water, reading the kids a couple of books, and them coming back to the stones in a half hour or so. If I was doing this in a professional kitchen or going restaurant to restaurant and sharpening on site, I'd want splash and go or perma-soakers (just leave the stones in a tub of water).

I run my knives over the bare leather strop at the start of the weekend to see where they are at. This is usually sufficient to keep them in prime order.The stropping takes only a minute or two per knife and there isn't clean up. I tend not to use the balsa strop loaded with the paste except in the context of a full progression.

[Naples09]

Back with a quick question - as I'm getting my purchase list together.

Kit - you linked to the 8in strop set but Mark linked to the 11in set. Any reason to pick one over the other? My wife and I do not like big knives - our largest will probably max out at 220-240.

I'm leaning toward the 8inch strop set since it's smaller.

[Kit Craft]

Back with a quick question - as I'm getting my purchase list together.

Kit - you linked to the 8in strop set but Mark linked to the 11in set. Any reason to pick one over the other? My wife and I do not like big knives - our largest will probably max out at 220-240.

I'm leaning toward the 8inch strop set since it's smaller.

I am big into saving space and money where applicable. 11 inches gives you more real estate to work with comfortably. In that sense many would say bigger is better but I have never been wanting for space on an 8 inch stone or strop with a 270 suji.

[Naples09]

Back with a quick question - as I'm getting my purchase list together.

Kit - you linked to the 8in strop set but Mark linked to the 11in set. Any reason to pick one over the other? My wife and I do not like big knives - our largest will probably max out at 220-240.

I'm leaning toward the 8inch strop set since it's smaller.

I am big into saving space and money where applicable. 11 inches gives you more real estate to work with comfortably. In that sense many would say bigger is better but I have never been wanting for space on an 8 inch stone or strop with a 270 suji.

Thanks Kit!

[Kit Craft]

Back with a quick question - as I'm getting my purchase list together.

Kit - you linked to the 8in strop set but Mark linked to the 11in set. Any reason to pick one over the other? My wife and I do not like big knives - our largest will probably max out at 220-240.

I'm leaning toward the 8inch strop set since it's smaller.

I am big into saving space and money where applicable. 11 inches gives you more real estate to work with comfortably. In that sense many would say bigger is better but I have never been wanting for space on an 8 inch stone or strop with a 270 suji.

Thanks Kit!

No problem. Hope you find what you need and enjoy it.

[old onion]

I just received my 8 inch bulsa strop from CKTG and it has a magnetic plate on one side so it fits nicely on one of my DMT diamond plates and then I can just fit it into my stone holder with ease.I have plenty of room on the 8 inch strop to handle my 240's.I don't have any knife bigger then that.

[Naples09]

Thanks again to all for the valuable feedback.

This is my planned order for now - please let me know if you think this is enough for the time being.

Strop Set
Shapton Pro 2K
CKTG diamond plate

I look forward to my first attempt at sharpening on the old Henkels.