Birthday set of stones

[Jeff B]

Once be become a confident sharpener you'll realize you can sharpen your knives on a brick or rocks outside.

They absolute best advice I can give you on buying more stones is "JUST DO IT", or is that Nikes...you get the point.

I should proofread better... I haven't been drinking...honest!

[Kit Craft]

Mark runs out of the Kitayama a lot. He seems to get it back in stock frequently too. Seems like it goes out of stock about every three months or so. Yeah...I pay way too much attention to what is stocked here. Regardless if you really, really want that stone loads of vendors carry it.

As for neighbors, I know of at least two members on the forum who are less than an hour from me. Need to grab some coffee or beers.

[old onion]

Mark runs out of the Kitayama a lot. He seems to get it back in stock frequently too. Seems like it goes out of stock about every three months or so. Yeah...I pay way too much attention to what is stocked here. Regardless if you really, really want that stone loads of vendors carry it.

As for neighbors, I know of at least two members on the forum who are less than an hour from me. Need to grab some coffee or beers.

+1

[Altadan]

Thanks, I'm in not rush.
It's finals week here at grad-school, and the pressure of papers and exams is what drives me to participate more than usual in the forum (makes sense? I'm a procrastinator )

[Kit Craft]

Thanks, I'm in not rush.
It's finals week here at grad-school, and the pressure of papers and exams is what drives me to participate more than usual in the forum (makes sense? I'm a procrastinator )

I am a huge procrastinator! Well, only with things that I feel are an obligation.

[Gregory27]

Thanks, I'm in not rush.
It's finals week here at grad-school, and the pressure of papers and exams is what drives me to participate more than usual in the forum (makes sense? I'm a procrastinator )

I am a huge procrastinator! Well, only with things that I feel are an obligation.

Like flattening your stones?

[Kit Craft]

Thanks, I'm in not rush.
It's finals week here at grad-school, and the pressure of papers and exams is what drives me to participate more than usual in the forum (makes sense? I'm a procrastinator )

I am a huge procrastinator! Well, only with things that I feel are an obligation.

Like flattening your stones?

Meh, I don't flatten a lot because I don't find a need with many stones. I will draw a grid and clean them up when they get to looking bad. Not really about procrastination in this case, I simply don't care.

[Altadan]

Procrastination - as a phenomenon - is a fascinating thing.
Those who don't procrastinate often find it maddening, but, it appears that most procrastinators only procrastinate - like you and I - on certain things.
Oftentimes there is a lot of internal process going on during that same time. Also, there is often an unfelt need for urgency, or a critical amount of stress\pressure to do the thing before it can be engaged and done.

Sorry, I'm rambling.
For me, papers and projects are subject to procrastination. Stones - and other hobby-related expenditures - or more subject to cognitive dissonance; a tension between the utility and cost, over and against pleasure, and perhaps quality...
Oh, sighhh

[Lepus]

One of the nice things about stones is they hold some value. If you get a stone you just don’t like you’ll lose 20% or so. So if you buy a 50 dollar stone and you decide to pass it on its like you spent 10 bucks to try it. That’s not a bad deal.

Try that with gold clubs, lol.

I would say this is an autocorrect mistake, but in fact it is not a mistake at all. It's nice that we have an out.

[Kit Craft]

Procrastination - as a phenomenon - is a fascinating thing.
Those who don't procrastinate often find it maddening, but, it appears that most procrastinators only procrastinate - like you and I - on certain things.
Oftentimes there is a lot of internal process going on during that same time. Also, there is often an unfelt need for urgency, or a critical amount of stress\pressure to do the thing before it can be engaged and done.

Sorry, I'm rambling.
For me, papers and projects are subject to procrastination. Stones - and other hobby-related expenditures - or more subject to cognitive dissonance; a tension between the utility and cost, over and against pleasure, and perhaps quality...
Oh, sighhh

I too am a rambler. Well, not a real one. The neighbor had a rambler, wonder if he still does. See...off topic again. But you are right, it is funny that I and others only procrastinate with set things.

[Altadan]

Ok,
I'm back here once again, with the interest of shining up my Tanaka deba's hagane to a brighter polish, and cleaning the jigane as much as possible from scratches.
I've a few questions for anyone who can lend his experience;
1) My current 1k\6k brings the jigane to a nice polish, and leaves the hagane (nicely) foggy, but with quite visible scratches. Is there a synthetic stone (Kitayama?) that would help me take it to the next level?
2) Previously some tips were given with regards to refinishing after thinning... what piece of gear do you mount the sp and micro mesh onto? And,
3) what grits do you use?
4) Finally, has anyone used any rotary tools in these endeavors?

Thanks,
Dan

If you want to polish out thinning scratches to get a mirror-like consistency, you want mounted abrasives like sandpaper, micromesh, etc followed by a steel polish. Stones have trouble getting around the curves and leaving things looking consistent.

Jeff B » Wed Apr 25, 2018 4:35 pm
"I use sand paper and micromesh when refinishing any blade road after thinning or for just changing the look. Also for touching up blade faces should they get scratched. As Lepus said it's the easiest way to maintain consistency in the finish with all the imperfections you usually run into in the steel."

Kit Craft » Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:58 pm
"On clad wide bevels or single bevels I use stones. The Naniwa SS, shapton (either) and my Kitayama all do a fine job at this for me. You can even follow up with some loaded strops.
If you want to refinish a mono steel or a clad blade that has a partial or full convex or simply is not a wide bevel then I find that sand paper or micro mesh works well.
Note: Even with wide bevels they are normally not "flat" to begin with so if you want to polish with a stone you will have to flatten them out first."

[Kit Craft]

If your finishing stone is bringing out scratches they are probably from your 1k. Adding something between them like a 2-4k would take care of the heavy lifting so that you don't have to do it with the 6k. If I want to refinish the blade road after thinning I want a tight progression, unlike with the edge of the edge where I make big jumps. With the edge of the edge I am looking for bite but with the wide bevel I am looking for a consistent, very fine scratch pattern. There are a few ways you can go about this, assuming you are using stones. Me, I could go something like Imanishi 400, king 800, rika 5k and kit 8k or god knows what other progression I would feel like using at the time(Sp1k-2k, ss5k and kit 8k is an alternative). However, after thinning I like softer stones. Then I could fall back to naturals. which means I could simply use a finishing stone like my Hideriyama (this one gives me the most foggy/dark cladding of my collection) or my Takashima (fairly close second but lighter) or I could use something like my Yaginoshima Suita which will give me a foggy/broken mirror look on the cladding and a straight up mirror on the core. Or I could simply go natural from the start and work through my Mozen-to and up from there. Or use Uchi finger stones or so many other options. These are my options as they are what I have but you could use about anything depending on what look you are going for.

Now, if we are talking things like micro mesh, I like the kind with the sponge like backing. I don't attach them to anything but use them similar to finger stones. You can also load up balsa and do this as well.

I bet there are some fellows on here with loads more experience that can share with you!

Edit: By mounted abrasives I believe he simply meant abrasive loaded paper etc like sandpaper/micro mesh.

[Altadan]

to the edit: aha, I see.

The tighter progression makes sense!
I've often thought of getting a Rika 5k (which many claim finishes more like a 3-4k), but my constant concern is that my el-cheap'o 6k side might also be a lower-than-stated finisher... I wouldn't mind the upgrade if I knew there was one, but budget is always tighter around this hobby than it is with anything else.

As for the rest... my head started spinning after the second jnat's name.
I don't suppose any one of these is wallet-friendly, now, is it?
It's a useful little description though, thank you!
Hideriyama (this one gives me the most foggy/dark cladding of my collection)
or
Takashima (fairly close second but lighter)
or
Yaginoshima Suita (which will give me a foggy/broken mirror look on the cladding and a straight up mirror on the core)

[Kit Craft]

to the edit: aha, I see.

The tighter progression makes sense!
I've often thought of getting a Rika 5k (which many claim finishes more like a 3-4k), but my constant concern is that my el-cheap'o 6k side might also be a lower-than-stated finisher... I wouldn't mind the upgrade if I knew there was one, but budget is always tighter around this hobby than it is with anything else.

As for the rest... my head started spinning after the second jnat's name.
I don't suppose any one of these is wallet-friendly, now, is it?
It's a useful little description though, thank you!
Hideriyama (this one gives me the most foggy/dark cladding of my collection)
or
Takashima (fairly close second but lighter)
or
Yaginoshima Suita (which will give me a foggy/broken mirror look on the cladding and a straight up mirror on the core)

yaginoshima Suita are typically expensive and while I do like mine I like about every other finisher I have better. You do not need a natural to get a Kasumi though. There are synthetic stones made for this by some vendors. The issue with Kasumi is what kind do you want? Do you want a dark fog, a misty fog, a light almost smoked mirror type contrast, low contrast with a matte look and mirror edge etc. Also, I have used three Hideriyama and only liked the one I own now. Takashima have been more consistent both in terms of edge quality and contrast, for me. Hakka are said to be great at this but I have never used one and those that I have seen, at least full size ones, are not the most wallet friendly. Koppa are but they fly away as soon as they touch down.

Uchigumori can give some wicked contrast but no predicting if it will be dark/foggy or light/misty unless it is a tested stone. But these stones in themselves have a lot of info surrounding them. Different classes of stone. Some softer, some harder. Some for cladding and some for core steel. You can get full size stones or finger stones (this is the cheaper route, I think). Sometimes they come flattened and sometimes they come with a chiseled surface. Sometimes they are dirt cheap and you are gambling, you get these from some sword polishing sites. Often times they cost much more but are from tested sources. There are reasons for all of that but it is a discussion for sure and maybe I am not the best person for that. However I do think Uchi are a good route to take and particularly on the used market. There are a few guys who change Uchi stones like they are underwear and you can get a known quality stone for a great price. In fact, I like this route with naturals in general. Some fellows around here are a godsend in that they take gambles, find good stones and then sell them to others at a good price so that they can try more stones in return.

There are just so many ways to go about this, natural, synthetic etc. I can only tell you what I have tried to this point and while I can get a good working kasumi with synthetics, I prefer naturals in general. In fact I prefer them for edge sharpening too, not just cosmetic finishing. But the thing is, while stones from a mine or even region will be similar they will not be the same. Some seem more predictable than others, if you know what characteristics to look for from a vendor. Rather that can narrow down how the stone will work, to an extent.

Now, to get back to your direct question. Are some stones less of a wallet bender than others, of course. I am cheap so I like to buy oddly shapen stones, slightly smaller stones or stones with chunks taken out of the corners and even ugly stones. I don't care if it is ugly if it works. Sometimes a stone that would cost $500 at 210x75x50 might only cost $150 at 190x65x40. Not a tiny stone but not huge but the savings is astronomical. Also, some midgrit stones can give nice contrast but with more noticeable scratches. These stones are easier to use, easier to find and are much cheaper though, so there is that.

My suggestion, read, read and read some more but experiment too. If you are asking then you are curious. Give Ken a call too. Hell buy a $30 Amakusa or Binsui if you want. I find most of the cheap ones to be tool grade and hard as hell for what they are but hit them with a diamond plate and they will give you fair contrast and a 1.2-1.5k edge if you choose to go that route. Some people advise against that but I like them.

Bleh, like always I went off on a tangent that may or may not be relevant.

[Altadan]

Bleh, like always I went off on a tangent that may or may not be relevant.

Kit, every time you go on a tangent I - and few dozen others, I'm sure - learn a few more things.

I'll post a photo of the deba's current finish, and maybe you can help me describe it. I'd say the cladding is milky\foggy, and the core mirrors at an angle.

As for that stone size you mentioned, my only stone has been 170X58mm, so there's hope still

[Altadan]

Beginning with rust-removal by sanding (and the tools he used), and ending with a high-mirror finish (with low contrast).
Just thought I'd post here

https://youtu.be/mUfK3iu7-N4

From start to finish, only took him, what? Seventeen hours? bleh

[Lepus]

As awful as it looked when he was doing all that work on the jigane, let me assure you the hagane is substantially worse.

[Bob Z]

Hehe good thread! I got rid of my soaker stuff cept for the Rika 5000 and got the 2000 Shapton pro which turns out to be awesome and fast.
Sold the beston/bester 500/1200 stones and next ill get the shapton glass 500. Of course i have lots of strop stuff to play with

[Jeff B]

Hehe good thread! I got rid of my soaker stuff cept for the Rika 5000 and got the 2000 Shapton pro which turns out to be awesome and fast.
Sold the beston/bester 500/1200 stones and next ill get the shapton glass 500. Of course i have lots of strop stuff to play with

I like the Naniwa Pro 400 better. MUCH better feel and cuts just as fast. It is just as hard and slow wearing and is 3 times as thick. You can still find the older Chocera version many places for under $60 which is a good deal and it is even thicker than the Pro version.

[Altadan]

Hehe good thread! I got rid of my soaker stuff cept for the Rika 5000 and got the 2000 Shapton pro which turns out to be awesome and fast.
Sold the beston/bester 500/1200 stones and next ill get the shapton glass 500. Of course i have lots of strop stuff to play with

I like the Naniwa Pro 400 better. MUCH better feel and cuts just as fast. It is just as hard and slow wearing and is 3 times as thick. You can still find the older Chocera version many places for under $60 which is a good deal and it is even thicker than the Pro version.

I was just coming back here to glean some insight before pulling the trigger on my first low-grit stone; and SG500 vs Chosera 400 was exactly what I was looking at.
To find you make that comment is extremely timely! Could you send me a link to where I could find the ol' choseras?
Also, what do you (or anyone) think about single bevels with regards to a hard low-grit?

Thanks!