Mirror polish on hagane

[AlbuquerqueDan]

I currently use a gesshin 6k S&G to get a mirror polish on haganes. I use finger stones and naguras to get a nice kasumi/contrast after I've gotten the hagane where I want it aesthetically. I was wondering if there are any other good options out there to produce a clean mirror finish. Thanks!

[ken123]

The hagane is the harder steel seen on knives with a softer cladding or Jigane. Often you polish with the same stone on both steels so you are polishing in a common plane (coplanar surfaces) but the same stone will produce two distinct finishes - more of a matte finish on the jigane and more of a mirror finish on the hagane. Now if you prefer a simple mirror finish not distinguishing the two stone surfaces, the Shaptons will work well for this. It is the opposite of a kasumi finish which is why I seldom use these stones for kasumi finishes) . To take this to an even brighter mirror finish (yes there are mirrors of various levels), you can go to finer cbn and polycrystalline finishes, giving you scratch free mirror finishes which are far finer than can be detected using light microscopy (ie past 1-2k optical magnification)

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Ken

[Altadan]

What do you use for medium, Ken? A flat plate with nano cloth? Is the friction low enough to "buff" a blade on that?

Also - since I too am very interested in alternatives to a 6k - are there any other specific stones that produce a brighter mirror finish to the hagane (while keeping the jigane opaque, but perhaps scratch-free)?
I trust this still pertains to the OP,
Dan

[AlbuquerqueDan]

Altadan: that's a perfect follow up on my post. Thanks! I was looking for other stone options to achieve a mirror polish. I then would use finger stones to achieve the kasumi contrast on the cladding.

I have a shapton pro 8000, but it doesn't do as well for me as my gesshin 6000. The gesshin is softer and feels way better, too.

I also have been experimenting with natural Stone dust on strips of alder wood I have laying about. I make the dust by rubbing a natural stone on a diamond plate and then spreading the dust out on the wood with just the smallest amount of water. I'm still up in the air on whether this works or not, but I do plan on continuing to fool around with it.

[ken123]

Dan,
Nanocloth is ideal for this. The abrasion comes from the abrasive ON the cloth, not the nanocloth itself.

Note that classically you have a matte finish on the jigane. If you look at this finish under a scope it has a scratch pattern. The hagane pattern is not necessarily simply bright but rather a hazy mirror or kurobikarî finish looking like the dark haze seen in antique mirrors considered ideal for Japanese polishers.

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Kèn

[ken123]

I use hakka tomae mud on nanocloth for polishing. This provides good contrast.

The Nubatama 2k and 3k and 15k bamboo stones work very well for providing kasumi finishes and are ideal for this application.

Ken

[ken123]

Note that the mud produced using a diamond plate will contain coarse particles. This mud is best generated using appropriate tomonaguras

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Ken

[AlbuquerqueDan]

Great stuff, Ken! Thanks! Every day we all learn a little more...

[ken123]

My pleasure. I learn from feedback. You will see a lot of people suggesting using diamond plates to generate slurry, but it results in coarse particles roughly the size of the diamond sticking out of the nickel matrix of the lapping plates. This is ok for coarse grit stones, but really not that good for finer stones.

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Ken

[AlbuquerqueDan]

My pleasure. I learn from feedback. You will see a lot of people suggesting using diamond plates to generate slurry, but it results in coarse particles roughly the size of the diamond sticking out of the nickel matrix of the lapping plates. This is ok for coarse grit stones, but really not that good for finer stones.

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Ken

I'm going to try to make some mud with my haaka tomae (sp??) this evening, see how it goes making a nice kasumi contrast AND a good edge...

[Altadan]

My pleasure. I learn from feedback. You will see a lot of people suggesting using diamond plates to generate slurry, but it results in coarse particles roughly the size of the diamond sticking out of the nickel matrix of the lapping plates. This is ok for coarse grit stones, but really not that good for finer stones.

---
Ken

I'm going to try to make some mud with my haaka tomae (sp??) this evening, see how it goes making a nice kasumi contrast AND a good edge...

We're waiting to see some photos! Or at least hear back

May add another question to this thread?
Will stainless-clad stainless-core (e.g VG1) knives also produce more contrast if the write finisher is used?

[AlbuquerqueDan]

[/quote]

I'm going to try to make some mud with my haaka tomae (sp??) this evening, see how it goes making a nice kasumi contrast AND a good edge...
[/quote]

We're waiting to see some photos! Or at least hear back

[/quote]

Well, I wish I could write back saying I had good success trying to get a nice mirror on the hagane, but everything I tried only gave me hazy scratches (I tried haaka tomae, aoto, and oouchi). I had to go back to the gesshin 6k for a mirror, then finger stones for the kasumi on the cladding. I feel a bit deflated right now because I ended up right where I left off. Oh well.

[Altadan]

Keep it up Dan!

Maybe give it another go with more pressure (or less) than you used last time.
Or, more mud (or less, and more water instead) than you did.

I just got in a tiny lil' takashima tomae and put my deba on it and... it worked!
I had a very nice contrast from my generic 6k, but the takashima just took it all to a bright, mirrory bevel. It's lovely to look at!

Now I'm looking at Aframes for old yanagis to restore... I'm just itching to put a shine on things

[Altadan]

Dan,

I hope this is not a hijack - I think this might be somewhat pertinent to the topic;

After putting my Deba to the Takashima, having worked it for quite a few minutes I noticed small spots of rust blossoming on both sides of the blade. I applied some soda-water-slurry, but only to partial success. I then decided to give it a run with some Flitz, and the result was satisfactory. All stains were gone. What's more, however, the Flitz added the already mirror-polished deba some real nice luster.
Here's a photo of what I started with when I first bought it off the classifieds (a low-grit finish);

Followed by a generic 6k finish,

More contrast.JPG (29.39 KiB) Viewed 2203 times

and finally what ended with this week (taka+flitz)

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[Altadan]

Next, I decided to try something else. I asked my wife for permission to tamper with her VG1 (soft stainless clad) Masutani santoku, and went to work on it, wondering if I could get some sort of different contrast between the matte-silver finish of the cladding, and the semi-mirror finish of the core. The short answer is, I did, but not without some work.
See, the Masutani has what I could almost consider a wide-bevel. Regardless of that fact, I put only it's bevel to the side of the stone, and worked the knife in a forward-backward motion, with the tip of the blade pointing forward.
In two sessions I gave this exercise I think I might have put in about an hour altogether. I was decided not happy with the result. The bevel I worked on (I only tampered with one, for comparison's sake), showed odd vertical scratches, despite my motion being horizontal. Further, though that bevel started showing mirror-like properties, it was distinctly dirtier, and cloudier, and even brackish - in other words, a really mehhhh aesthetic compared to the untouched factory bevel.
Here are a couple of photos to elucidate;
first, the untouched factory bevel, with its horizontal (drying-towel) scratches:

Factory_Towel scratchesIII.jpg (29.87 KiB) Viewed 2200 times

followed by the unsatisfying takashima finish with the odd vertical scratches, despite my motion in the other direction:

Takashima polish+scratchesII.jpg (46.09 KiB) Viewed 2200 times

I was thinking of tackling this issue with lower grits, and then perhaps climbing back up to the takashima, when it occurred to me to give that bevel a run of Flitz before I do anything rash.
It worked. In fact, it worked so well that I gave the untouched bevel some Flitzy loving too. Now both bevels are shiny, but the effect of the Takashima is clearly seen;
notice how the untouched factory cladding is still matte, and core is quite shiny (but not "mirror" shiny), whereas the bevel I worked on now exhibits a real mirror polished cladding, and a "milky" core of VG1
First the untouched (but Flitzed):

Next, the Takashima + Flitze:

Note: I made sure that the light hit the blade from the same angle for each shot, so as not to have the light play.

In any case, playing with these aesthetics aspects is fun, demanding, and rewarding. And indeed folks around here have all manner of good advice

[AlbuquerqueDan]

Love to see the pics, Dan!

I worked a bit on the knife in the photos this morning. I got the mirror finish on sandpaper up to 3k, then mud from a haaka tomae nagura on a yaginoshima asagi.

After that progression, I had some uneven marks, so I put more haaka tomae mud on a little strip of leather that I can rub with my finger.

I like these results, but as you said, it's the process of learning and experimenting that's the fun part.

[AlbuquerqueDan]

Two more pics:

[Jeff B]

Wow Dan, that looks like a lot of work put into that but it looks great!

[AlbuquerqueDan]

Honestly, I'd say 45 minutes, tops (it is single bevel, though, so that cuts the work in half, so to speak...). Thanks for the feedback, though!

The edge is great, too (which is the most important thing).

[Altadan]

Victory!

Great photos. What is that beautiful knife?